Need some help with noise reduction options

[Fish Tank Travis]

Ok, so I just got my 220 up and running with my 55 gallon sump underneath and, for my first sump setup, it is just too noisy. I can hear it from most of the house (which isn't a very big house, but still...). So, can you all please take a look at the pictures of my setup and let me know if you have any suggestions to quiet the setup down?

Here is a front view of the tank, and you can kind of make out the 55 gallon sump underneath.


Here is the first sump chamber. A bit of a bubbling sound comes from here but it's not that loud and isn't much of the overall tank sound.


Here is chamber number two (the middle chamber) in the sump. It is just a refugium area that houses the heaters. No noise comes from here.


Here is the last chamber where the pumps are at. A slight hum comes from the pumps, but is also not that bad and is not much of the overall tank noise.


Here is the baffle that the water flows over to get to the pump chamber. With the sponge it is pretty much silent.


Here is a picture of the plumbing behind the tank (sorry, not the greatest picture). Is appears that about half of the noise is water noise that comes from this area.


Here is a picture from the top of the tank. There are three H2Overflows and two 3/4" returns. It appears that about half of the noise is coming from the water draining into the overflows.


No noise from the power strip and heater controller, but I wanted to give a comprehensive set of pictures.


Again, not much noise from the pumps. They are Rio 20HF's and at the current head height my total flow rate should be around 1,500gph.


Front view of the tank.


I have the water level perfect so that the glass brace acts as a top view panel on the tank.


Close up view of one of the H2Overflows.


Close up view of one of the returns.


View under the tank of the 1.5" drain lines from the overflows.


Ok, sorry for the lengthy post but I want to be thorough because if I can't get this quite a bit quieter then the tank is going to have to go, and I really don't want that.

Stuff I've already done to make some improvements:

First, I removed the "siphon Stopper" part of each return and replaced them with an elbow that has holes drilled in each side to break the siphon when the pumps are off. This is why you see the white elbow on each of the returns (I have black ones coming but wanted to get things running so I grabbed white from the hardware store). This got rid of the water jet noise that the siphon stopper created by having the break holes above the waterline. However, the water should still drain to the exact same height.

Next, I placed the medium sound rings in each of the H2Overflows. This helped to reduce the water draining noise, but it's still pretty loud.

Things that I'm thinking about doing to make this particular setup quieter:

First, I am planning to cover the top of the tank with .220" acrylic pieces. Do you guys think that this will work to block a lot of the sound that is coming from the top of the tank?

Next, I am thinking about installing some decent pipe insulation on the 1.5" overflow lines all the way from the bulkhead to the sump. Do you all think that this will have much effect on the noise coming from the lines behind the tank?

Lastly, a am considering adding covers to the top of the sump and drilling holes for the return lines and the overflow lines to fit snugly in. This is a bit of a long shot in my opinion, but do you think that it will have much effect?

Other things I'm considering that are a bit more extreme:

Mainly, I am considering taking the H2Overflows off and putting different height pieces of PVC in place. I would then install a gate/ball valve on my lowest overflow and set it up to be full siphon. The other two would then be emergency overflows in case something ever blocks the primary siphon drain.

Last resort, put the new to me tank that I have dreamed of having and put so much time and effort into setting up, up for sale and let the buyer break it down and haul it away instead of me doing anything else with it. I hate to even think of this as an option, but at the noise level it's currently at, I won't be able to keep it.

Once again, thank you all for your help.

 

[Drstrangelove]

I wish I had a less theoretical answer, but it's the most practical one I can offer.

You are asking a lot of interesting questions, but unfortunately, the key question is: "what is the source of the sound?" You can answer that one better than we can, and if you do, you will be in a better position to determine a solution.

On submarines, where elimination of sound is an art, they look at how to eliminate noise one by one after first isolating the cause.

Sound is a wave caused by vibrations that are transmitted through 'something' like air or metal. Ultimately it comes to us through the air.

The sound (in the air) can be reduced by reducing the vibrations from the originating source (for example reducing a machines rpm from 1,000 to 300), any intermediate source (for example padding pipes that are transmitting the sound of water hitting the inside of the pipe or filling the pipes with water rather than let water fall with air), or by reducing the air waves we receive (for example, adding insulating strips at the bottom of doors, adding carpets or acoustic tiles to the ceiling and walls, closing doors, adding draperies of concrete walls) in the fish room.

Any number of things might work or might fail. For example, insulating the ceiling and floor might be a worthless exercise if the sound is from vibrating pipes in the walls. Placing plastic over top of a tank might be useless if the sound is from a vibrating motor striking a wall near the tank or water free falling 2 feet into a sump.

I would find the sources of the loudest sounds and try to isolate how they are being transmitted around the house: vibration of an object (like a pipe or a wall), vibration of something inside a machine (like an impeller inside a pump), vibrations from water striking the sump or the surface of the tank water, etc. Then replace the item, pad it, move it away from contacting a solid object, reduce the speed of the object, change the methods being used (for example a bean animal versus a simple water overflow system.)

 

[DN328]

Travis, it seems from your description you've narrowed the loudest water noisen coming from the three overflows and/or drains correct? Is that correct?

 

[munchie]

Those three H2Overflows looks like they would be super duper loud

 

[Fish Tank Travis]

Travis, it seems from your description you've narrowed the loudest water noisen coming from the three overflows and/or drains correct? Is that correct?

Yes, the three overflows and the 1.5" drain lines behind the tank are the source of 80-90% of the noise. The top is open right now, but I want to hear if you guys think adding a piece of .220" acrylic to cover the two open parts of the top will be effective in blocking the sound of the water draining into the overflows, or if you think it won't really do anything.

Also, the other main source of the sound seems to be the water hitting the sides of the 1.5" tubing on its way down behind the tank. The end of the tubing that flows into the sump is submerged inside the first chamber of the sump, so it's not that loud. However, do you guys think that adding some pipe foam insulation around the tubing running from the bulkhead to the first chamber of the sump will reduce much of this noise, or do you think it won't do much?

The last main option I was thinking about trying is to remove the H2Overflows and use pieces of different length PVC pipes to try to make some sort of bean animal type system. I would install a valve on the 1.5" line that has the shorter standpipe and throttle it back until it runs with a full siphon, and then just let the other two drains accept a trickle, but mainly act as emergency overflows. I'm not really wanting to try this option unless I have to because I am going to be keeping fire eels and I don't want them to be able to find their way into the overflow and end up in the sump, or worse, stuck in the valve that is creating the siphon.

I would like to hear what you all think about my ideas. Also, if you have any other ideas that I haven't mentioned, I'm all ears.

 

[Drstrangelove]

Okay, so I hopefully read your next post a lot better this time. (I missed the quote next to one of the pictures.)

So it sounds like you may have 3 partially full tubes (you don't have any full siphons) with the H2Overflows? Is that the ~80-90% of the noise? Water rushing down a tube full of air x3 would be terribly loud.

Bean Animal systems, as I understand them, are designed as one non-throttled empty tube slightly above the other two (which are at identical heights), with one of the two tubes throttled back to handle a nearly silent trickle, forcing the open tube to run full siphon. That is meant to be a near silent operation, so is a viable option for you if you can set the pipes that way.

I haven't used them, but I don't see the a reason to remove the H2Overflows, as long as the 3 pipes are established as stated above. Water will still flow full siphon down through the grates on one standpipe, with the other trickling and the third left as an emergency (assuming it's set slightly higher.) OTOH if they are all identical heights, and you leave them that way, you don't want to throttle 2 of the pipes because if the remaining pipe gets clogged, you will have a disaster.

If you can elevate the opening on one of the overflows above the other two while still being comfortably below the expected water levels, and throttle a second tube, I think you would be close to what you want.

 

[Fish Tank Travis]

How much of a height difference do I need to allow for a full siphon to happen on the 1.5" line in a bean animal type setup?

 

[Drstrangelove]

Not sure if this is what you are asking.

I don't recall seeing a number for the height difference between the emergency (higher pipe) and the other 2 pipes. Write-ups simply say it's "slightly higher" and the diagrams in this link shows the difference from a visual point of view. Attached is a link with that quote and also a graphic that shows the difference in height.

Of course in one of these it's using reverse elbows, (see one pic) so in two pipes the water flows up while in the other it cascades down. In that respect the water leaves the tank in the emergency pipe at a clearly higher point, but I'm not sure if that's meant to identify how different in height it needs to be.

http://www.beananimal.com/projects/silent-and-fail-safe-aquarium-overflow-system.aspx

If it's higher, then under normal operations it will never get water because the main pipe will be full siphon and the second overflow pipe will take a trickle. The trickle will fluctuate with any excess long before it reaches the higher (emergency pipe) since it's largely an open pipe even if it's throttled back some. This of course assumes the pipes are sized correctly so that one pipe can handle most of the overflow at full siphon.

 

[slippery slimecoat]

I could be totally wrong on this, but going to throw it out there. What if you were to find a way to add a small air hole on your drain lines similar to what people do with durso standpipes to quiet them down?

 

[Fish Tank Travis]

I could be totally wrong on this, but going to throw it out there. What if you were to find a way to add a small air hole on your drain lines similar to what people do with durso standpipes to quiet them down?

I did see this type but unfortunately, the elbows on the outside of the tank are glued into the bulkheads, so that would require all new bulkheads and new fittings, which I'm not ready to go for yet.

I think what I'm going to do is get some 1.5" PVC and remove one or two of the H2Overflows and replace them with an emergency drain height piece of PVC. Then, I will add a valve to one or two of the H2Overflow drains and try to adjust it so that the H2Overflow(s) run at full siphon, but then I still have the emergency drain in case one gets blocked. Then, I will still have the strainer of the H2Overflow to keep my eels from finding their way in.