New 2 x Leo Stingray with disappointing result......

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i see hip bones on both rays, and that dent in the forhead is sickining. the seller should refund u 100% of your money. this is unacceptable and makes things harder for Brent and myself who breed nothing but top quality rays

when i send a ray out, u could starve it for 4 weeks before it looked like that

very sorry, best of luck to u
 
I think you should name the seller so people wont get ripp off in the future like what happened to you. The only person that your are helping by the revealing is just the seller himself.

If i name the seller, this thread will be close per forum rules. I have done it in the past by naming them and the thread got deleted. As i stated before, i am tryin to keep this thread alive so i can receive help from "pros". But as of now, one is gone and the other soon to follow.

if you really want to save them it can be done, received a wild female in worse conditon then that with her disc ripped in half, plus deep dented forehead, honestly just put live black worms, raise temp to 88f and and air pump, you have sand which is a great idea, but leave the lights off. If nothing i have suggested to you works then i am truely and very sorry, but please i know the seller sent you them in the worst of conditions, but they are in your care now so just try your best. Im rooting for you and them HTH.

I have gave them black worms, blood worms, shrimp, night crawler....everything. No takers. I did as much as possible already. One is dead and the other have 10% chance of recovery because it is flipping. >:(

i see hip bones on both rays, and that dent in the forhead is sickining. the seller should refund u 100% of your money. this is unacceptable and makes things harder for Brent and myself who breed nothing but top quality rays

when i send a ray out, u could starve it for 4 weeks before it looked like that

very sorry, best of luck to u

Thanks greatly appricated!! Shipper claims they were eatting well and was only starved for 3 day for shipping. He dont understand what happen. I will be visiting his state very soon for work related, whereas I will be visiting someone.
 
WOW,new pics definatly show more problems than the first pics did,first pics did not show the dents in the forheads,or the extent of they shape they were in.Defiantly longer than just 3-4 days without eating,is that how they looked when they arrived ?If so then he was not honest with you about the condition they were in.I believe there was someone else who had boughten some henlei rays on here in the same shape,but at least the guy told him the shape they were in.
 
First, let me say this is the only time I will post in this thread, as I have a feeling how it will turn out/how it is already going. There are too many keyboard warriors who say they will do this or do that, but don't even know the entire situation. The most important thing is the shipper had nothing to do with the condition of the rays are now. All he did was ship the rays, nothing more: they were kept only overnight at his house and the rays were active/fine there. I sold him the rays, and they were eating fine before shipping/starved for shipping. This was not the only 2 rays I shipped out, I also sent out a BD and did the same procedure and it was eating first day after shipping. I do not know what happened with these, they were kept with my leo/hen from trev and she was also starved since they were in same tank. She was starved 3 days along with these 2 and after I sent out his rays, I resumed normal feeding for her and she quickly pounced on her food. I told him their main diet was blackworms/small cut shrimp, he did not even have BW any on hand to feed as IME after rays are shipped, they are extremely picky so I always have live blackworms ready to feed when I receive rays since it is the most accepted food quickly. Being starved for 2-3 days +overnight starve before shipping and not eating for 4-5 days on top of stress from shipping is the reason why they are deteriorating FAST. I don't even know what size tank he's kept them in or QT in small tank to make sure they get back to normal before putting it in one of his larger tanks. The leos were also always kept on BB tank, never any sand. He also forgets to mention the rays were sitting in AP for several hours more after I already told him what time they arrival. I am sick of the fingerpointing on this site, there is way too many DBags who don't understand a situation fully before saying something. Lastly, I did offer him a free marble BEFORE the smaller ray died, I knew the ray was super stressed but never expected her to pass. He also requested a refund for these rays but that is not something I am in the condition to do, I offered him a % DOA GTD and although they arrived alive, with the current situation, I feel terrible about whats happened but in no way do I feel it is all my fault, it is just really odd that 2 other rays that went through similar stress are still alive and eating well. Below is the last communication between me and Magnus via email. I did offer him some type of resolution but I am starting to regret it already. Take it for what you will, but I dont need to prove anything to anyone. But I'm done posting here and regret even selling the rays to him, if they were still here, they would be still alive.

PS. I find it funny that a certain seller in this thread is quick to act honorable/high and mighty and post/point fingers when he has done something shady to me already. Sending me the WRONG ray and then stating later that it's the same breed, so what if its wrong ray", sending wrong sex and mis-labeling one of my rays and NEVER even offering a resolution.



Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2011 06:48:50 -0700
From: magnusvo@yahoo.com
Subject: RE: leo/hen pic
To: bravehrt2k5@live.com

Minh,

3 days after receiving the Leo stingrays, they are now dead. I was told and guarantee by you that they were healthy and is eatting shrimp, worms and is in great condition. I receive picture showing that they are fat and healthly, but when I received the ray, they will so skinny that the hip bones are showing which are different from the same rays as shown in the pictured, which really upset me. I have started a thread on Monsterfishkeepers.com on the same day i received the ray, to see if members agreed with me.

http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/f...ew-2-x-Leo-Stingray-with-disappointing-result......

I know you have seen the thread since you have texted me about it. I didnt want to expose you because i was hoping we can work something out.

On the day I received the ray, I have contacted you expressing my concerns of why they were so skinny and why do not as shown in video and pix. Per your text from 7174222518, you say that they were starved to prepare for shipping. Which really explain why their hip bone are showing. I send you a youtube video link of the ray's video you posted to confirm but you deleted the video which seems really odd.

I have been saving for 2-3 week not to receive dead rays. They are not the same rays you send pic of since they are sick and skinny. I would like to request some form of refund for these rays. Otherwise, I am force to expose you and your shipper so others so others can be aware. And..

I "WILL" file a small claim court within your state and I will bring the bring these ray to the vet to get documentation on their condition(s). I will file for loss of rays, vet bill and others. you will be receive something in the mail within 2-3 week concerning this matter, which i promise.


Thank you
Magnus

REPLY
First and foremost, my shipper had nothing to do with this. All he did was ship the rays. Secondly, I do NOT take kindly to threats. I've been there every step of the way, I checked up/followed up with you ever since they arrived stressed. I even sent you live blackworms on my charge. Rays being starved before shipping is a must, and you know that. I only followed normal protocol, as I said I had also shipped a BD out at the same time, with the same protocol, and she was fine and eating first day or two out the bag. I don't know if it was your water, the fact that they were left at the AP for several more hours than they should have, or how they were acclimated even. The point is you received them alive , although stressed which comes when rays are starved and then shipped and sit in a box at AP for several hours. Lastly, although I do care about my reputation, I've done nothing wrong and I won't be threatened. In addition, I had offered to give you my free marble once my other 2 rays are sold, heck I even said it didn't even have to be you who bought it for you to get it free, I just need to bring them together to have them shipped. In addition, my rays were fine and healthy prior to being prepped for shipping, of course they will be skinny/worse condition after starved, shipping, and not eating at your place when they got there. That doesn't take a scientist/vet to figure out. The only thing I can do is offer you a $xxx discount on the next ray, which is obviously at a loss to me as well. I stand firm on my ground, but I won't be threatened either. "Expose" me or not, I don't spend my life on a forum, and doing so will only result in further negativity, it isn't going to help the situation but only to make matters worse.







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So you're saying that 2-3 day of starving and 4-5 days starving from stress caused that much hip bones showing and dent in the forehead when it was eating WELL before you drop it off at the shipper ?

Dude, you either didn't check the rays prior to shipping or you simply don't care once you have the money. If you had caught the rays and see the condition that they're in, you'd done differently if you truly care. I have left pups not eating while being out of town for a week and it did not do any damage that was protrayed. I may see a "hint" of hip bones but nothing to that significant.

If you "truly" care about your reputation, you'd never ship any ray(s) in this condition. Quite pointing finger at other sellers, this thread is about the rays that you sold. If you have another problem with your seller, start your own thread.

I have been in the hobby for a long time, while I agree with you that pups can deteriorate fast, but not at this rate even after birth. A week is not ideal but it's not going to be in the condition as pictured.
 
and please explain why you deleted all your youtube video after told you about the rays? I have a feeling this forum will be deleted soon.... boooo :irked::cry:
 
There are too many keyboard warriors who say they will do this or do that, but don't even know the entire situation. The most important thing is the shipper had nothing to do with the condition of the rays are now.

You can say whatever you want to but you and your shippes (ichi dragon) should both be heald responsable for shipping such sickly Rays. You Keep harping about the AP like thats gona make up for the fact you shipped sickly/emanciated rays to someone. You should be assamed.
 
Braveheart??? Should b Noheart! Even a newborn pup wouldn't look that skinny after 4 days! Just cuz u get sent wrong fish doesnt mean u intentionally screw over someone else. End of story.
 
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