NEWBS-STOP OVERTHINKING SUMPS!!!
- Thread starter dmopar74
- Start date
do not get me wrong, if this is handling your ammonia all is good, whither its packed with media force fed like a fuel injected engine, or is a passive as things go by thing, as long as the ammonia, nitrate cycled is satisfied not make a dif. nor will having more or less increase or decrease the nitrate creep, water changes stay the same for the bio load you have.
I don't buy all this "directing waterflow through bio-media" stuff. If you have ammonia in your water, it's the same concentration at every place in the tank. If water's moving past the bio-media, or through the bio-media, the bacteria on that media are in water with ammonia in it.
I'd like to hear what ray keepers have to say. If they can keep rays in a sump like the OP shows, that tells us alot.
I'd like to hear what ray keepers have to say. If they can keep rays in a sump like the OP shows, that tells us alot.
^^^agree^^^
Yay verily...
why isn't the substrate and decor ever considered in discussions like this?
I would test this for you but I am sure as shuck not pulling out my baffles.
You still haven't proven that it is better. Sure, there's contact time, but that is all in relation to thee amount of surface area provided by specific media assuming that you are harnessing every bit of the available area and therefore must have every bit of that said surface contacted by water. I still disagree that most aquariums need anything more that what is provided here. Perhaps a bit more media if you are heavily stock, but that's about it. There are plenty of examples of JDM tanks where the sump is just cram packed full of media to support the system. No fancy baffles or anything, just lots of media. There's a science here that many like to assume they know, when in reality, the generally accepted concept is just "more is better" and if that doesn't work, add some more.
I've also ran a 1,000+ gallon system of of a tub & some submerges scrubbies. Every one of these tanks was basically over-stock, yet I didn't need fancy baffles and water redirection for there to be enough available surface are for bacteria to colonize.
Like I said, I've yet to see a formula where all these guys are calculating the necessary media or the actual effectiveness of these different systems as it relates to the nitrification cycle.
I am only asking, how did you know that the sump design was at fault. Did you try packing it with the "best" media before calling it a failure, or are you assuming that would have been the result? Perhaps you went straight to the "better go bigger" concept to make sure it didn't happen again.
I think that MANY things get carried into freshwater aquarium design from saltwater aquarium design. Alot of information and alot of designs. Baffles in sumps is great example of that.
Baffles in a sump are required in saltwater tanks. You NEED a bubble trap, you might really want to have a refugium, and you will definitely need to have 2 different water levels in a sump under a reef tank. That's where baffles in a sump come from.
None of those things are typically used in freshwater aquaria, but people still put baffles in freshwater sumps. I think OP has made an excellent observation in saying that we need to all take a deep breath and consider what we truly need in sumps for freshwater tanks, and configure them accordingly.
If we do that, most if not all of us will end up with a sump exactly like he shows--no baffles, filter socks, and media in a bag for biofiltration. dmopar is right--this is all you need. I'd think that people new to our hobby would be very encouraged to see this--it just takes all the mystery out of building a sump. It's approachable.
All the advantages of a sump, VERY easy construction, and HIGHLY effective even for the biggest tanks.
The only question I have is whether media in bags is enough for ray tanks where ammonia spikes after feeding are a daily occurrence. I'd be very curious to know that.
Baffles in a sump are required in saltwater tanks. You NEED a bubble trap, you might really want to have a refugium, and you will definitely need to have 2 different water levels in a sump under a reef tank. That's where baffles in a sump come from.
None of those things are typically used in freshwater aquaria, but people still put baffles in freshwater sumps. I think OP has made an excellent observation in saying that we need to all take a deep breath and consider what we truly need in sumps for freshwater tanks, and configure them accordingly.
If we do that, most if not all of us will end up with a sump exactly like he shows--no baffles, filter socks, and media in a bag for biofiltration. dmopar is right--this is all you need. I'd think that people new to our hobby would be very encouraged to see this--it just takes all the mystery out of building a sump. It's approachable.
All the advantages of a sump, VERY easy construction, and HIGHLY effective even for the biggest tanks.
The only question I have is whether media in bags is enough for ray tanks where ammonia spikes after feeding are a daily occurrence. I'd be very curious to know that.
