Northfin food

[PYRU]

Keep digging, and keep reading, until your eyes bleed. lol At the end of the day there is no definitive answer to any this - beyond the fact that 330 ppm is over TWICE the approved limit deemed safe for pet food, which includes tropical fish food. That's all that matters here, for most consumers.

For myself, the practical thing to do is use a food that I know has levels that have been deemed safe, and that have worked for myself for many years now. Northfin has not been around long enough to stand the test of time, something that some here have clearly missed. We have not seen any long term feed trials from hobbyists, breeders, or commercial aquaculture facilities (15-20 yrs) as we have experienced with other companies, and their products.

Also, I seriously doubt that other pellet foods contain as much, or more, than 330 ppm ethoxyquin, the level shown in the NF formula tested.



Of course they have, they simply haven't been posted on a public forum. As stated previously, ALL fish food manufacturers have labs at their disposal. It's not like no one knows what is in their final formulations, everything is tested on a regular basis.

Perhaps one day myself and/or others will post lab results from other brands for some closer comparisons. The guesstimate here that others are this high too, is illogical, and based on wild speculation and ignorance. If you still haven't figured out how this formula ended up scoring such a high level then you really ought to slow down & read what has been posted. I don't know how much clearer I can make this. Here's a hint - 85% krill.

This is not to say that other NF formulas will score as high, I suspect that the vast majority won't, but even the cichlid formula that I saw posted briefly somewhere was 159 ppm, so it still exceeded the max safe value of 150 ppm. In a food where the company has expressed to consumers - is *preservative free*, and specifically ethoxyquin free.


That, and beyond all of the science and government regulations, I prefer to give my hard earned money to companies that don't out right attempt to deceive me. That's about as practical as I need to get.

My point exactly there's really not an argument to be had unless its an NF representative. If they've been aware of these labs since December with no acknowledgement then that speaks for itself.

Limits are set for a reason. 330ppm is overshadowing the 159ppm for the cichlid formula. Both are extremely high and should be pulled from the market until than can atleast get the preservatives in their non preservative foods within the set limits.

 

[RD.]

I suspect that most fish foods on the market contain EQ.

The EQ will not be added by the manufacturer - it is added to the raw ingredients during production, specifically krill meal, and fish meal. Even so called natural sources of raw ingredients such as Haematococcus pluvialis algae (a form of astaxanthin) can be preserved with ethoxyquin, due to its high fat content. So if a manufacturer isn't paying attention to his labels or manifests, or at the least checking with his suppliers, then he best be double checking any suspect raw ingredients pre-production. A smart manufacturer would double check everything just to be on the safe side.

 

[Grinch]

Keep digging, and keep reading, until your eyes bleed. lol At the end of the day there is no definitive answer to any this - beyond the fact that 330 ppm is over TWICE the approved limit deemed safe for pet food, which includes tropical fish food. That's all that matters here, for most consumers.

And therein lies why I'm interested in this. I'm interested in the state of the science behind what has been "deemed safe". Sadly, federal regulations are all too often set with greater deference to political and financial convenience rather than rigorously collected scientific data. I'd love to see more data on chronic or acute toxicity of EQ or its secondary metabolites in fish (from a lab without conflicts of interest)... but there's not much out there... which you readily admit above... so, glad we are on the same page now

All of this in no way excuses NF or any other feed manufacturer from lying and/or having EQ levels in excess of the levels mandated by federal regulations. Disappointing. Especially since I have an unopened bag of NF in my fishroom and I'm not sure I want to use it anymore!

@Northfin and it's owner: We restocked the fish-pantry last night with a big online order... no Northfin ordered.

 

[picaso]

www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/49/173.218
fish meal is offered for transportation by vessel in bulk in freight containers, the fish meal must contain at least 100 ppm of anti-oxident (ethoxyquin) at the time of shipment.

If you use your math, EQ should not be an issue. Let’s assume marine protein in the pre-manufacturing has 200 ppm ( above regulation requirement ). If the manufacturer uses 1,000 pounds of marine protein and another 1,000 pound of other material such as flour, seaweed, garlic….etc. Assuming they do not add more EQ on their end, the EQ level should be 100 ppm. 200-300 ppm is not the norm, but the high end. The food will also have different reading from batch to batch. Remember, EQ is an anti-oxident. As time goes by, it will slowly loses it's potency due oxidization. EQ fear is unfounded. I am sure vast majority of the fish food companies use lots of grain, soy, yeast, corn gluten, pea,rice, potato protein …etc and very little marine protein due cost. So the EQ level in fish food is a non-issue as long as it is set at 150ppm max.

This thread is about Northfin false advertising. What is so bad is that they went through so much effort to convince people their foods are preservative & EQ free. consequently, they made lots of unnecessary contradicting statement on their website such as this below.

http://www.oscarfish.com/forum/fish-food-ingredients/828-northfin-fish-food.html?limitstart=0
Response from Northfin: Thank You for supporting Canadian products.
"All our main ingredients are ordered fresh from Canadian factories, we do not buy or import any from offshore.""
Contradiction: If Northfin is truly using antarctic krill, how did krills get to Canada.The distant between Canada and antarctic is over 10,000 miles! South pole to north pole is 12,000+ mile, diameter of earth is less than 8,000 miles. They have to buy it from Canadian company that shipped the krill in from off shore. LOL, krill can’t travel 10,000 + mile to Canada.
The company can not make excuses and blame it on their suppliers. It is their products and should take full responsibility. In other words, they should have tested the raw ingredients before they can marketed as “EQ FREE” food.

 

[RD.]

If you use your math, EQ should not be an issue. Let’s assume marine protein in the pre-manufacturing has 200 ppm ( above regulation requirement ). If the manufacturer uses 1,000 pounds of marine protein and another 1,000 pound of other material such as flour, seaweed, garlic….etc. Assuming they do not add more EQ on their end, the EQ level should be 100 ppm. 200-300 ppm is not the norm, but the high end. The food will also have different reading from batch to batch. Remember, EQ is an anti-oxident. As time goes by, it will slowly loses it's potency due oxidization. EQ fear is unfounded. I am sure vast majority of the fish food companies use lots of grain, soy, yeast, corn gluten, pea,rice, potato protein …etc and very little marine protein due cost. So the EQ level in fish food is a non-issue as long as it is set at 150ppm max.

Bingo!

 

[CANAMONSTER]

Bump

 

[bing]

http://www.canadian-aquatic-feed.com/?page_id=34
"All of NorthFin’s Premium Product Line consist on formulas which are 100% Filler Free”

Northfin is the only company I am aware of that made such bold claim their food is “100% Filler Free”.

So, Is there such a thing as 100% filler free food? Even if your interpretation of filler associate as wheat flour only. The statement is still a false statement.

"Filler free” to me,meant no unusable material. Fish cannot digest fiber in kelp, shells on krill, bone and scales on fish, carbohydrates in wheat and clay. No food can be digest 100% by any animal. All undigestible material are discharge as wastes. Even astronaut space food is not 100% filler free.

 

[CANAMONSTER]

Also he heightens the illusion of less fillers by listing 3 whole fish meals.... Krill, Herring, sardine. The last two are the same lol.

I have come to the conclusion that frozen fish variety is probably the best food you can give your fish. No one knows exactly what is forsure in any pellets.

 

[bing]

I disagree with you on frozen food. They 90% water. When the critters are frozen, it expand and when it defrost, it shrunk. This causes the membrane to break and loses all the nutrients when you feed. It is also very messy and create pollution in the water. A good pelletized food is still the best way to go. Just learn to separate the wheat from the chaff.

Don't throw the baby with the bath water! Not all company are crooked. That why we are having this discussions.

Maybe you should start a thread as to which company is trust worthy and which is less trust worthy.

 

[CANAMONSTER]

I disagree with you on frozen food. They 90% water. When the critters are frozen, it expand and when it defrost, it shrunk. This causes the membrane to break and loses all the nutrients when you feed. It is also very messy and create pollution in the water. A good pelletized food is still the best way to go. Just learn to separate the wheat from the chaff.

Don't throw the baby with the bath water! Not all company are crooked. That why we are having this discussions.

Maybe you should start a thread as to which company is trust worthy and which is less trust worthy.

Where did you get this information ? Chunks of tilapia , shrimp scallops and silver sides when thawed do not loose their nutrients lol. Also it is much more cleaner then pellets and my filter socks are proof of this.