Not your typical basement pond

[Iafishkeeper]

Gentlemen,

First basslover34, I appreciate your thoughts, and you are correct on some of your points. I enjoy a good debate. I may have incorrectly came accross in highlighting that it would not be easy. Yes the project will be a difficult one and yes he will have to check with his local requirements. He would have had to do that anyways. I simply stated a more logical (in my beliefs anyways) to build a seperate enclosure and not worry about the tank effecting the foundation of the home.

Johnptc has done a very similar build with cinder blocks. With his build all the pressure is on the walls with no renforcement pushing back. With the build in this thread the dirt around the tank would offer additional support on the walls, which would a plus. A contractor would need to figure the thickness of the concrete and I do believe pressure would not be an issue after that. I have some experience in using forms and working with concrete. I have built several culverts which handle massive amounts of water, a little different but similar too. If johnptc cinder block build is just fine then i would see no reason why a person couldn't build one of poured concrete. Of course you would have re-rod in it. I would like to bring another example to the table as well .... what about the 4000 gallon tank being installed in the one guys house. The thread we are all following. The tank is made out of fiberglass and a sheet of acylic bonded together with no reenforcements for the walls. I would like to think a concrete built tank with dirt around the sides for added support would be stronger .... don't you agree.

and as far as putting slabs together.. that isn't how it is done. Normally you would pour the bottom slab with rebar sticking up to connect the two pours.... Then you would pour the rest at one time.

i do think this would be a huge project but a lot easier then to figure out all the extra engineering with the tank attached to the house. This is all i meant.

and Dr. Joe. I agree.

My statement saying

"I see this being the more pratical build."

the word i would like to highlight would not be "pratical" but the word "MORE". As i believe my idea would be "more pratical" lol

Fellas, I was just thinking.... how would this build really be any different from the 50,000 gallon build but just on a much smaller level. He added an additional structure attached to his house made of poured concrete walls and built a tank inside. Hell if i remember correctly he cut a door in his basement to access the new tank.

I see this build no different but on a much smaller level.

Your guy's thoughts ???

 

[Celastrus]

This is very edutational, thanks again for your input all. Rest assured I am definitely going to at least consult a professional of some structure-related variety before anything is done, I just wanted a general idea aso I can think about parts I could maybe DIY like if concrete block, building the walls, renting a bobcat for excavating, etc.
That link to the other thread (thanks!) got me thinking about building a concrete block tank in the basement as it is now though to put some warm water critters in. My shortest wall down there is 25' but oc the tank would have to be less long for access, it could be up to 6' out and not affect the rest of the game room too much I think right now. Now I'm wondering if there's a practical limit to the weight a concrete basement floor could sustain - a preliminary google search suggests not for this application. Maybe if I piled lead bricks on it. I'll go trawl the forums some more...

Oh, and I'm a girl. I know, it's weird, but true.

 

[Burko]

“thinking about building a concrete block tank in the basement as it is now though to put some warm water critters in.”

Much better idea.

“Now I'm wondering if there's a practical limit to the weight a concrete basement floor could sustain”

Get advice from a qualified building inspector.

“ a preliminary google search suggests not for this application.”

Slay the naysayers I say.

“Maybe if I piled lead bricks on it.”

Computer says no.

 

[basslover34]

Gentlemen,

First basslover34, I appreciate your thoughts, and you are correct on some of your points. I enjoy a good debate. I may have incorrectly came accross in highlighting that it would not be easy. Yes the project will be a difficult one and yes he will have to check with his local requirements. He would have had to do that anyways. I simply stated a more logical (in my beliefs anyways) to build a seperate enclosure and not worry about the tank effecting the foundation of the home.

If there is a change in the foundation at all... it affects the home, although as I mentioned it is a good thought process, just wasn't as simple as you had made it sound

Johnptc has done a very similar build with cinder blocks. With his build all the pressure is on the walls with no reenforcement pushing back. With the build in this thread the dirt around the tank would offer additional support on the walls, which would a plus.
A contractor would need to figure the thickness of the concrete and I do believe pressure would not be an issue after that.

the issue isn't the pressure.. it can be dealt with... the issue would always be keeping the cost down and ensuring that it was done by a professional

I have some experience in using forms and working with concrete. I have built several culverts which handle massive amounts of water, a little different but similar too.

Good to know if I ever decide to build a culvert ... oh... P.S. A LOT Different and nothing similar to...I wouldn't want a culvert passing to close to my house... they leak! LOL

If johnptc cinder block build is just fine then i would see no reason why a person couldn't build one of poured concrete. Of course you would have re-rod

you mean re-bar ... right?

in it. I would like to bring another example to the table as well .... what about the 4000 gallon tank being installed in the one guys house. The thread we are all following. The tank is made out of fiberglass and a sheet of acyclic bonded together with no reinforcements for the walls. I would like to think a concrete built tank with dirt around the sides for added support would be stronger .... don't you agree.

Which build are you talking about? Necrocansis's build? that thing is only a few feet tall.. not really the same thing.. thats the only 4k tank I can think of at the moment

and as far as putting slabs together.. that isn't how it is done. Normally you would pour the bottom slab with rebar sticking up to connect the two pours.... Then you would pour the rest at one time.

you did mean re-bar Generally yes that is how it would be done

i do think this would be a huge project but a lot easier then to figure out all the extra engineering with the tank attached to the house. This is all i meant.

easier... not really as it would have its own set of problems to deal with... cheaper.. ... enough to make a difference at the potential overall cost...

and Dr. Joe. I agree.

My statement saying

"I see this being the more practical build."

the word i would like to highlight would not be "practical" but the word "MORE". As i believe my idea would be "more practical" lol

none of the monster tank builds should ever have the word practical attached... and thats the way we like it

Fellas, I was just thinking.... how would this build really be any different from the 50,000 gallon build but just on a much smaller level.

Not much different... including the price tag LOL if your going to do it .. might as well go big cause it doesn't cost THAT much more

He added an additional structure attached to his house made of poured concrete walls and built a tank inside. Hell if i remember correctly he cut a door in his basement to access the new tank.

Yes he did... which he had designed and professionally built, and that addition to his home is worth more than the home most likely... NOTHING is impossible with the right amount of money behind it.

I see this build no different but on a much smaller level.

Your guy's thoughts ???

 

[Celastrus]

Not much different... including the price tag LOL

I don't follow. My one window into what was originally (in idealand) an otherwise normal outdoor concrete pond compares to an entire 50,000 (+!) gallon tank setup, complete with all the specialized equipment (and equipment room!) and how many tens of panes of glazing - how exactly does this compare, in price tag or any other way? I mean, besides what both concepts share with fish keeping in general? You are seriously suggesting they would both cost the same, or even anywhere near?
I'm not saying it's going to be a cheapie, but come on. This seems like discouragement just for the sake of it.

Oh, and the other idea of copying the big warm concrete block tank inside the basement.. that was in addition to, not instead of.

Ellie

 

[Iafishkeeper]

If there is a change in the foundation at all... it affects the home, although as I mentioned it is a good thought process, just wasn't as simple as you had made it sound

Thank you for the compliment, and i would agree with you, but it is not unheard of people making a walkout basement out of a regular basement. Plus yes they are moving the dirt, but after the tank (which is solid) is installed the dirt will go back in, thus kinda putting the house back to the way it was prior to the build.

the issue isn't the pressure.. it can be dealt with... the issue would always be keeping the cost down and ensuring that it was done by a professional

I believe all three of us are talking about using a professional. you, me, and Ellie.

Good to know if I ever decide to build a culvert ... oh... P.S. A LOT Different and nothing similar to...I wouldn't want a culvert passing to close to my house... they leak! LOL

I was referring to the concept of building as they are both a big box made of concrete.

you mean re-bar ... right? Which build are you talking about? Necrocansis's build? that thing is only a few feet tall.. not really the same thing.. thats the only 4k tank I can think of at the moment

Yes re-bar, i was in a huge hurry yesterday, but wanted to respond... my appologies...
it's the build that the guy sold his cars and put the tank in the garage. and it has the guy standing up in the tank.
you did mean re-bar Generally yes that is how it would be done


easier... not really as it would have its own set of problems to deal with... cheaper.. ... enough to make a difference at the potential overall cost...



none of the monster tank builds should ever have the word practical attached... and thats the way we like it
oh.... I see.

Not much different... including the price tag LOL if your going to do it .. might as well go big cause it doesn't cost THAT much more

I don't agree at all.


Yes he did... which he had designed and professionally built, and that addition to his home is worth more than the home most likely... NOTHING is impossible with the right amount of money behind it.

no one said she wasn't going to seek a pros help...


Yes, this would cost many thousands of dollars to build, probally in the tens of thousands, depending on your contacts and people you know.

so perhaps I say you should think about doing a smaller tank inside the house like many of the DIYers on here and by the size you said the room available is.. it would still be an awesome tank. Then if you move and build a house... just have the tank built in from the start... that would save a lot of money and maybe headaches down the road.

Good luck to you...

 

[basslover34]

I don't follow. My one window into what was originally (in idealand) an otherwise normal outdoor concrete pond compares to an entire 50,000 (+!) gallon tank setup, complete with all the specialized equipment (and equipment room!) and how many tens of panes of glazing - how exactly does this compare, in price tag or any other way? I mean, besides what both concepts share with fish keeping in general? You are seriously suggesting they would both cost the same, or even anywhere near?
I'm not saying it's going to be a cheapie, but come on. This seems like discouragement just for the sake of it.

Oh, and the other idea of copying the big warm concrete block tank inside the basement.. that was in addition to, not instead of.

Ellie

Sorry if that came off as if it would be the same exact cost... but there is nothing "normal" about this pond which is why you would end up with such a high cost... I'm just guessing here but something tells me that the price of the "window" alone wil give you sticker shock...

The 50K Build is more similar to this project than JohnPTC's tank but even still I doubt that the amounts are much different per gallon... my guess is that they are almost equal.

The cost isn't in the structure as much as the sealing and windows... when your talking about an 8' depth... thats just going to hurt a bank accounts feelings and neither the 50k or john have that

 

[Celastrus]

Basslover34, I do recall saying "up to" 8 foot. I don't see why that needs to be held rigid and the rest of the idea shot down on that alone. Most folks don't like being treated like they just fell off a truck - even if they did, it's still kind of insulting. If and when I run up to a price that's too high for me, I'll be the judge of that, and make adjustments accordingly - or save up and wait. There are certain things in life that are worth eating a few pots of beans for. I'd appreciate a little less concern for my finances, or my grasp on reality.

I was/am wanting input on the idea itself; ways to make it doable, cheaper (a little steak with my beans now and then is always nice), different ways of doing it with different pros and cons, if it's even possible, etc. THAT is what I was looking for - and thanks for your input on that side of it, Iafishkeeper.

Ellie

 

[basslover34]

Basslover34, I do recall saying "up to" 8 foot. I don't see why that needs to be held rigid

I've just gone from what you have indicated you would like

and the rest of the idea shot down on that alone.

I have NEVER shot down the idea simply stated that this is not a normal build and woul require a hefty price tag ( I still can't give any ideas since you have given no indication of the possible size of the pond other than how deep it is)

Most folks don't like being treated like they just fell off a truck - even if they did, it's still kind of insulting.

if you have the impression that I am speaking to you in a manor other than intended then I am sorry, I don't know you nor do you me so it's easy to assume alot of things about eachother but the fact remains that there is never any intentional indication of insulting you in anything which I have written

If and when I run up to a price that's too high for me, I'll be the judge of that, and make adjustments accordingly - or save up and wait. There are certain things in life that are worth eating a few pots of beans for.

das gonna be alota beans , Seriously I don't know or care about your financial ability to pay for a project like this,

I'd appreciate a little less concern for my finances, or my grasp on reality.

First you ask to help with showing you how to do something cheaper then while showing a concern for the price in anyway You want to try to play a line like that?

I was/am wanting input on the idea itself; ways to make it doable, cheaper (a little steak with my beans now and then is always nice), different ways of doing it with different pros and cons, if it's even possible, etc. THAT is what I was looking for - and thanks for your input on that side of it, Iafishkeeper.

Ellie

Well I guess you told me...

Here is my prediction... build will Not happen just like the 10 000 other posts of these " I have a dream" builds

But I'm always willing to be proven wrong

Proceed with your build

 

[Celastrus]

First you ask to help with showing you how to do something cheaper then while showing a concern for the price in anyway You want to try to play a line like that?

Not the point. You kept referring to MY bank account, etc. How much it would cost is a concern, but what is TOO much (for me), or what I consider to be "scary" to my bank account isn't an issue I want to discuss here. I don't see what's screwy about that. It was funny the first time though, I hadn't heard anyone refer to expensive that way before.

Here is my prediction... build will Not happen just like the 10 000 other posts of these " I have a dream" builds

It's possible it's a no-go. It's possible it's 5 years from now. Or 10. Astronomical price tag (greater than price of the house, or two.. depends.) would bury it, as would logistical impossibility (waterproofing to the degree required not physically possible, etc). I'm flexible. I can deal with just a monster indoor tank or two. If I have to. I guess. More than a couple months is "never" to most message boards though, so if it takes a few years... Man I'm a dinosaur by then.

I do appreciate the input about the idea itself. Clearly you have enough interest to even post, so you're not completely jaded. I'll let you know if the project ever starts.

Thanks again,

Ellie