OB Peacocks

[vinman]

I do not think anyone is questioning if a hybrid is a hybrid. I was merly explaining that you can take a hybrid mix and line breed that line of fish to bring out the qualities you want, similar to what people have done with the ruby reds and linebreeding. I was not stating the by linebreeding a hybrid it becomes a nonhybrid. I was merely remarking that fish like the dragon's blood in being worked with in a similar manor to the Flowerhorns. A linebreed hybrid.

I have to dissagree with your post . Pharaoh cleary states in his own words

BTW...Dragon Bloods and Strawberries are not hybrids, just another line bred fish.

 

[mike dunagan]

that is very confusing for a novice to understand.
To put it simply You can line breed anything you want. Whether you are line breeding Hybrid or Pure fish. Does not make a difference if you are breeding to improve a mutation or color, pattren or to improve body shape or fin shape. Line Breeding is where you breeding for a desired trait or a specific look or for a cirten locality or Ssp. To keep a fish pure with out contaminating the gene pool .

I am not sure waht you are saying. Are you saying that you can not linebreed unless you have all purebreed fish?

 

[mike dunagan]

I was referring to the point that a dragon blood hybrid is not the same as let say a sunshine hybrid. They are both in fact hybrids, but still different. This was what I was referring to. As there are different types of hybrids.

 

[emtbmike]

You can line breed. But if the fish that you start with are not pure. Then the you will have or create will not be pure. The best way to line breed is to start with Wild caught parents. Breed back the best colored babies to the parents and so on. Never add a diffrent fish or ssp to your fish to keep your fish pure.

 

[vinman]

that is very confusing for a novice to understand.
To put it simply You can line breed anything you want. Whether you are line breeding Hybrid or Pure fish. Does not make a difference if you are breeding to improve a mutation or color, pattren or to improve body shape or fin shape. Line Breeding is where you breeding for a desired trait or a specific look or for a cirten locality or Ssp. To keep a fish pure with out contaminating the gene pool .

I hi lighted it for you mike dunagan so you can see where it is worded that I'm talking about hybrid and pure fish. It sure is a lot more simple to understand and a more correct way of explaining it than the way you worded it

 

[mike dunagan]

You can line breed. But if the fish that you start with are not pure. Then the you will have or create will not be pure. The best way to line breed is to start with Wild caught parents. Breed back the best colored babies to the parents and so on. Never add a diffrent fish or ssp to your fish to keep your fish pure.

Got ya, was lost in the interpretation of what you were saying. The internet is not a good as a face to face. I agree if you want to line breed best in that manor. I would though like to say that sometimes the hybrids can be used for this purpose with amazing results. Of course not normally done in africans.

 

[mike dunagan]

I understand what you are saying. I am saying that line breeding does not have to just be with pure breeds. Line breeding is the act of breeding for a selective trait. As you stated above. I am just saying it is not limited to just pure breeds is all. I hope that is clearer. Feel free to change anything I missed. It has been a long day.

 

[bbandu]

I have and have had OB peacock that I thought were really stunning, I am not a person that judges one for the fish they keep.

I do not include OB Peacocks in this because they are pretty much an accepted hybrid.

This is my opinion: I think that if you want to keep hybrids for your own use and enjoyment then that's your right. However I believe that if you do keep hybrids that you should keep them in a all male tank or in a species only tank. And you should not pass them on to anyone unless they want them and know that they are hybrids. And please do not release any into the wild for any reason.

Other than that the most important thing is that you enjoy your fish.

 

[ikevi]

Ah don't you just love how much the word hybrid can bring out the conversations.

Anyways from what I gather everyone here agrees.

Hybrid= mix of any species... (Maybe even location, if we are assuming location really is a new species.) Example: most misc mbuna you find at petstores. IE yellow lab x red zebra

Linebreed= Selecting 2 fish from same species to get desired traits. (My example would be german red peacocks... but I think the ACA feels they are hybrids...)

And now the new term...
Linehybrid= taking a reproducing hybrid species (a new species now?) and breeding desired traits. (Likely candidates = flowerhorns, dragon blood, strawberry peacock, OB peacock, etc.)

If you feel my examples don't match up give me proof that your fish isn't a linehybrid. (IE documented evidence with photos from the original breeder.)


And obviously "Linehybrid" are usually quite pritty. But lets say their fry must look like the parents, and be able to reproduce.

No again the whole reason we tend to find it hard to sell hybrids/linehybrids is because these fish in the informed comunity have a large stigma agianst them.... The only problem is I honestly feel they are our best bet at getting more people interested in the hoby. Which means we need both breeders whose goals are to preserve species (exspecially endagered/exstint in the wild) but we also need breeders that's goals are to get the general public into fish keeping. (Note... most of the second case is already taken care of by the fish farms... they are going to sell whatever they can that people want, which means hybrids.)

So ideally most of us responsible fish keepers would concentrate on preserving species lines. But that doesn't mean we can't experament every once in a while. (And just make sure you never sell your fish without informing the seller... and hope they never sell the fish without being responcible too.)

 

[vinman]

I'm doing some line breeding with some hybrid Malawi's

Fire fish females crossed to a Strawberry male. I also want to cross the fire fish with fort McGuire red flush peacock and Red fin Kandango. I feel The Knadango had a lot to contribute to the overall wash of red and gave the fire fish it gorgeous finage


I'm also working with hybrid Zebra project The albino Red OB that is a hybrid of different animals from the zebra complex along with rusty cichlid and who knows what.. I say Hybrid because it is the truth This fish is a result of the hobby strain red zebra which are desendants of the crimison red ( Rusty X Esterae ) that is also the for runner to the cherry red zebra. This was crossed with big block OB zebras from different locations. That says hybrid to me. As with most Aquium Strain fish .

Most Malawi fish are Hybrids in the hobby today, Unless you are dealing with stock that all desendants can be traced to the same locality in the lake. If not Good chance you got a hybrid even though it looks pure