Over-dosing Prime reduces oxygen??

[bigspizz]

so... now that bigspizz has been offered multiple possible explanations (biodegrades..oxidizes...evaporates...reacts with a continuing supply of ammonia and nitrite) he is embarking on the vary thing he is accusing Seachem of.... a smear campaign.

dude...a competitor 'slings mud' about a Seachem product so they sling back and you use this to attempt to tarnish Seachems honesty/reliability? gimme a break

that is what the quote you posted says right? That Seachem defended themselves from a competitor who was attempting to tarnish Flourite?

bigspizz you repeat yourself once again and say

so I repeat.... what do you know? please enlighten us with something other than the broad statement that once you put it in there it is in there forever and beyond. Which simply is not true IMO but hey if I am wrong then explain to me why.

you seem to be on a mission now to tarnish Primes reputation to the point of being paranoid with imaginary supporters who sit back and watch you take on the world.

I would be more than glad to agree with you bigspizz....just offer up some proof / explanation to support your claim and defy Seachems

man this thread makes me wish I was a chemist haha

you have used the term 'dilution' several times
link me to a definition of 'dilution' which explains what you are saying....that no biological or chemical processes take place to remove excess Prime

Look up dilution.....I am saying water can become "saturated" with prime....Please, and, with all due respect, link ME to Seachems test results, and chemical breakdown of their own product (to "scientifically" refute what I am saying). I said I understand chemistry....
I do not own a lab, and, admit, I have not separated Prime atom by atom. I use Prime exclusively, and would wait to do a water change, before using an inferior product. However, even if it "evaporates" the fact that it is heavier than water means it would fall right back in the tank....(easy enough?).
"Biodegrading"... Does Prime come from the earth? Is it alive? Do you know what bio means?
"Oxidizing" What in Prime "oxidizes"? All of the chemicals? Prime is comprised of many things...I am not sure what they mean when they say their product "oxidizes away"...
"Continuing supply of ammonia", my tanks have "0" ammonia....The tanks bio-filter keeps ammonia at "0" when cycled properly..
"Smear campain"... I use prime "the right way" I am saying it is key to not use it "the right way"...Smear? Come on....
"Imaginary supporters" Nice try, again I say, I await their test results...



For them to offer so many different ways that eliminate prime, that are in no way close to the same process, they are assuming we are not chemists...Which one takes precedent and how? I hope I covered "enough" for you. Earlier I said "if I feel like playing"..Well...You got my attention.

ummm which isn't it?
and why?

See above.....

 

[Toby_H]

Here are some basic definitions provided by dictionary.com… feel free to verify them…

Biodegrade - to decay and become absorbed by the environment

Oxidize - to convert (an element) into an oxide; combine with oxygen (think rust)

Evaporate - to change from a liquid or solid state into vapor; pass off in vapor.

However, even if it "evaporates" the fact that it is heavier than water means it would fall right back in the tank....(easy enough?).

First off… is Prime heavier than water? How much research/experimentation did you put into this? I’ve got $20 that says you just made this up…

When Prime acts as a reducing agent in the water and begins breaking down and/or binding elements in the water by the exchange of ions. In other words Prime breaks down and merges with other stuff...

"Biodegrading"... Does Prime come from the earth? Is it alive? Do you know what bio means?

Yes Prime comes from the Earth… it is an unnatural combination of natural elements…

Bio is a suffex that means life... but do you know what biodegrade means (double check above )

"Oxidizing" What in Prime "oxidizes"? All of the chemicals? Prime is comprised of many things...I am not sure what they mean when they say their product "oxidizes away"...

The most commonly known form of oxidation is rust… What happens when metal rusts… it erodes, which is a form of biodegradation. Oxidation is a chemical breakdown of a substance or element. A chemical breakdown is a form of biodegrading…

What they mean by it 'oxidizes away' is it breaks down into free ions via oxidation and those ions bind or break down other elements... or get absorbed by other elements to make things happen...

"Continuing supply of ammonia", my tanks have "0" ammonia....The tanks bio-filter keeps ammonia at "0" when cycled properly..

Your fish emit Ammonia in trace amounts constantly right? They emit that ammonia into the water, right? You are suggesting Prime builds up in the water, right?… How does the ammonia get from the fish to the bacteria without coming in contact with Prime (if Prime is built up in the water)…



So check this out…

Prime oxidizes (mixes with Oxygen) when it hits your aquarium water, This oxidation breaks the bonds of the elements in Prime releasing loose ions into the water. These ions then attach to other elements causing many of them to break down (biodegrade) into simpler elements. Many of these simpler elements are gaseous in their natural form and then evaporate from your aquarium…

I thought you understood chemistry?

Sorry to get so technical… my girlfriend works in a BioLab at a University and is going to school for her Masters… So I sorta understand chemistry too… and have a really smart chick to double check my thinking with…

 

[bigspizz]

Here are some basic definitions provided by dictionary.com… feel free to verify them…

Biodegrade - to decay and become absorbed by the environment

Oxidize - to convert (an element) into an oxide; combine with oxygen (think rust)

Evaporate - to change from a liquid or solid state into vapor; pass off in vapor.



First off… is Prime heavier than water? How much research/experimentation did you put into this? I’ve got $20 that says you just made this up…

When Prime acts as a reducing agent in the water and begins breaking down and/or binding elements in the water by the exchange of ions. In other words Prime breaks down and merges with other stuff...



Yes Prime comes from the Earth… it is an unnatural combination of natural elements…

Bio is a suffex that means life... but do you know what biodegrade means (double check above )



The most commonly known form of oxidation is rust… What happens when metal rusts… it erodes, which is a form of biodegradation. Oxidation is a chemical breakdown of a substance or element. A chemical breakdown is a form of biodegrading…

What they mean by it 'oxidizes away' is it breaks down into free ions via oxidation and those ions bind or break down other elements... or get absorbed by other elements to make things happen...



Your fish emit Ammonia in trace amounts constantly right? They emit that ammonia into the water, right? You are suggesting Prime builds up in the water, right?… How does the ammonia get from the fish to the bacteria without coming in contact with Prime (if Prime is built up in the water)…



So check this out…

Prime oxidizes (mixes with Oxygen) when it hits your aquarium water, This oxidation breaks the bonds of the elements in Prime releasing loose ions into the water. These ions then attach to other elements causing many of them to break down (biodegrade) into simpler elements. Many of these simpler elements are gaseous in their natural form and then evaporate from your aquarium…

I thought you understood chemistry?

Sorry to get so technical… my girlfriend works in a BioLab at a University and is going to school for her Masters… So I sorta understand chemistry too… and have a really smart chick to double check my thinking with…

Your girlfriend let you post this? Pour prime in a glass of water, and simply observe for yourself.....You are no scientist, you just made up every word of what you just said. Biodegrade? Does plastic biodegrade? According to your vague definition, you are saying it does....I did what you guys said to do, this is in fact a case of 'someone'(s) over thinking simple things.....



Spend the 20 on some prime

 

[trebor69]

now you're just being silly bigspizz.... you a defense attorney or sumthin?
you offer no facts to back up your claims ...only attempts at casting doubt on the subject

Yes I did look up dilution. I was pretty sure I already knew what it was but I went searching anyway hoping to find a definition of it that applies to this subject. No such luck. And now we're moving from dilution to saturation? lol

All I can suggest is for you to answer all of your own questions. You need the answers to make the claims that you are making.

The rest of us are at least willing to admit that we don't know exactly what happens to excess Prime in an aquarium. But we all know from experience that it can regularly be over dosed.

I will use a bit of your own logic on you.

Ammonia zero?

I think not. It may not be detectable with your consumer grade test kit due to DILUTION but it does not MAGICALLY instantly disappear. It has to be there first before any natural processes can convert it to anything else.

Lower your pH below neutral and guess what... something happens and ammonia starts to turn into ammonium... oh my was it MAGIC? nah maybe it was just ionization....another process that may affect Prime lol

 

[bigspizz]

now you're just being silly bigspizz.... you a defense attorney or sumthin?
you offer no facts to back up your claims ...only attempts at casting doubt on the subject

Yes I did look up dilution. I was pretty sure I already knew what it was but I went searching anyway hoping to find a definition of it that applies to this subject. No such luck. And now we're moving from dilution to saturation? lol

All I can suggest is for you to answer all of your own questions. You need the answers to make the claims that you are making.

The rest of us are at least willing to admit that we don't know exactly what happens to excess Prime in an aquarium. But we all know from experience that it can regularly be over dosed.

I will use a bit of your own logic on you.

Ammonia zero?

I think not. It may not be detectable with your consumer grade test kit due to DILUTION but it does not MAGICALLY instantly disappear. It has to be there first before any natural processes can convert it to anything else.

Lower your pH below neutral and guess what... something happens and ammonia starts to turn into ammonium... oh my was it MAGIC? nah maybe it was just ionization....another process that may affect Prime lol

LOL is correct. Dilution, and saturation, certainly, correlates 2 like variables. I am sitting back waiting for something to refute anything I said. No need to be diminutive just yet, you were doing just fine.

 

[trebor69]

Biodegrade? Does plastic biodegrade?

ummm yah it may take a LOT longer than most things but good ole Mother Nature WILL reclaim what it rightfully hers lol

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_long_will_it_take_for_a_plastic_bottle_to_biodegrade

 

[Toby_H]

LOL, we've provided ample detailed information that refutes your speculative claims... Yet you choose to ignore them or pretend they don't make sense...

Pour prime in a glass of water, and simply observe for yourself

Errr... I would be observing Prime sitting idle in a glass... thanks for the science project...

 

[bigspizz]

ummm yah it may take a LOT longer than most things but good ole Mother Nature WILL reclaim what it rightfully hers lol

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_long_will_it_take_for_a_plastic_bottle_to_biodegrade

With that link you admit you are just hyping this all up...Goodbye...

The term "biodegradable plastic" is often also used by producers of specially modified petrochemical-based plastics which appear to biodegrade.[citation needed] Traditional plastics such as polyethylene are degraded by ultra-violet (UV) light and oxygen. To prevent this process manufacturers add stabilising chemicals. However with the addition of a degradation initiator to the plastic, it is possible to achieve a controlled UV/oxidation disintegration process. This type of plastic may be referred to as degradable plastic or oxy-degradable plastic or photodegradable plastic because the process is not initiated by microbial action. While some degradable plastics manufacturers argue that degraded plastic residue will be attacked by microbes, these degradable materials do not meet the requirements of the EN13432 commercial composting standard.

Credit wikipedia.



Honestly, just quit....

LOL, we've provided ample detailed information that refutes your speculative claims... Yet you choose to ignore them or pretend they don't make sense...





Errr... I would be observing Prime sitting idle in a glass... thanks for the science project...

Idle?....Explain..I too have prime, that just SUNK in the glass...............I thought we were gonna let the pros handle me? You guys are OBVIOUSLY way over your heads...



Trebor69, you think 100% water changes "Kill" fish...Again, goodnight....


NC, you do this for a hobby (try and debate people into submission) I already told you, you have no clue. You, (or your girlfriend) THROUGHLY proved this.

 

[Toby_H]

BS, you bolded the line in his quote that states: “Traditional Plastics are degraded by UV light and oxygen“… this is biodegrading… You bolded the line that proved you wrong…

I still have a glass of 50% Prime 50% water sitting on the kitchen counter… Both liquids (Prime & water) are clear… but there are little black specs (from the Prime) evenly distributed throughout the glass… What does this prove again?

And even if (hypothetically) Prime, in it’s pure state, were heavier than water… the chemical process of breaking down elements into simplier elements by the addition of ions can break down into elements that are in a gaseous form at 80*F thus allowing them to (get this) evaporate!

Go back to post #82... I made many points in that thread… you laughed the whole thing off based on looking at a consistent clear liquid sitting in a glass, which proves/suggests nothing…

Feel free to address each point and share with the class where my logic is faulty…

Just because you don’t understand something doesn’t mean it’s not true

Trebor69, you think 100% water changes "Kill" fish...Again, goodnight....

And here you are just making up things and pretending he said them to discredit him… Where did this absurd statement come from?

NC, you do this for a hobby (try and debate people into submission) I already told you, you have no clue. You, (or your girlfriend) THROUGHLY proved this.

I do not appreciate people spreading misinformation and I see it a lot here on MFK. So in my spare time I confront the misinformation and do my best to correct it. You just happen to be the source this time…

If I’m wrong I would appreciate being corrected… but I’m not going to pretend I’m wrong based on the idea you can’t understand something…

 

[bigspizz]

BS, you bolded the line in his quote that states: “Traditional Plastics are degraded by UV light and oxygen“… this is biodegrading… You bolded the line that proved you wrong…

I still have a glass of 50% Prime 50% water sitting on the kitchen counter… Both liquids (Prime & water) are clear… but there are little black specs (from the Prime) evenly distributed throughout the glass… What does this prove again?

And even if (hypothetically) Prime, in it’s pure state, were heavier than water… the chemical process of breaking down elements into simplier elements by the addition of ions can break down into elements that are in a gaseous form at 80*F thus allowing them to (get this) evaporate!

Go back to post #82... I made many points in that thread… you laughed the whole thing off based on looking at a consistent clear liquid sitting in a glass, which proves/suggests nothing…

Feel free to address each point and share with the class where my logic is faulty…

Just because you don’t understand something doesn’t mean it’s not true



And here you are just making up things and pretending he said them to discredit him… Where did this absurd statement come from?



I do not appreciate people spreading misinformation and I see it a lot here on MFK. So in my spare time I confront the misinformation and do my best to correct it. You just happen to be the source this time…

If I’m wrong I would appreciate being corrected… but I’m not going to pretend I’m wrong based on the idea you can’t understand something…

Are the two things I bolded and enlarged for you the same thing? Go back and look at the 100% water change thread, that you did this in...Read his posts....I remember him....(misinformation )