Part of the Ancient Treasures are RIP

[ctoychik]

Sorry about your loss, i really really feel your pain...

sounds very much like intestianl parisite problem, i just came back from a weekend away and my flowhorn has the same symptoms .. its poop was clear and very lerthargic and its body all floopy as such, its just on the verge of dying as im treating it right now but i think i noticed it a lil to late.

Thank you for your kind words and I hope your FH makes it.

Hmmm, do you use UGF too?

sorry to hear that dude~

Thanks ^^

 

[LemonHead]

Why didn't you house them in separate hospital tanks if they didn't get along in a big tank?

Anyway, sorry about your collection. It was nice.

 

[classic-chassis]

Silly question but did you wash the gravel before you put it in the tank, and did you ever stir the gravel while it was in the tank?
I have pebbles in mine and have been thinking about changing for white sand, until I read that if you don't stir the sand byweekly gas like methaine(sp) can build up, that could have been the cause of the gasping(so my book says.)
Also leathal to fish.

Big pebbles are easy to stir so when I do water changes everything gets moved around, (in order to syphon all the pooh out.)
I also have a lot of goast Shrimp at the bottom of my tank, other fish pick them off but they eat fish pooh as well.
I am gutted for you because you were waiting for them due to the Thailand problems.
I'd also go with the parasite infection if they had string hanging out of the anal area.

 

[henward]

The UGF is really not good. for community tanks iwth tetras and stuff its ok, but i find that with meat eating fish, its a no no.
you see, meat eating fish have a short digestive system. rapid digestion means that the food is incomplete in its break down.
Plecos for example have very good digestion.

having a UGF means you have been storing the poo inthe gravel, out of sight but unfortunately not out of mind - by not syphonic the gravel, but even if you did you woulnd not get all of it cos you would find it hard to suck it through the UGF system.

The nitrite spike is a worry. but sometimes fish can survive that.

my main question:

WITH ALL THAT FISH, WHAT FILTRATION DO YOU EXACTLY HAVE?
if i had all that fish in my tank, i would have a filtratoin system that would turn over the water LITERALLY 12 to 15 times an hour. might sound extreme but it will avoid deaths like yours.

I am sorry for your loss, when i see those dead pics, i feel sad, i love aros! and catfish! but this is an expensive lesson for all of us too!

nitrite is a very silent and sudden killer i think.

the deaths can also be caused by parasite, but arowanas are very strong, most fish get sick and aros dont in same conditions because arowanas had millions of years to immunise...( all ancient fish have this benefit) but nitrite and fighting, open wounds and bad water would perhaps be a reason for this?

anyways, im not expert but i do have a few aros - to me , my highest priority is filtration and water parameters!

having gravel isnt bad, its the UGF i think, having fine substrate is good so dirt doesnt penetrate but the UGF will abnormally SUCK poo down to the bottom of the gravel where they can possibly ferment in a bad way polluting water.

limestone is also very basic. Did you know tha tlimestone can raise ph extremely. If you want a buffer and raise ph, aragonite is better. LIme stone is a soft rock and can break down in time as it reacts with the acidity in water and caused by fish poo.

anyways, thats my 2.5 cents.

but do tell us what filtration you have on which tanks and rating of litres per hour of output.

thanks

 

[chefjamesscott]

i for one will never use an under gravel filter to much of a pain to clean the tank when you really have to clean it

also i bought a 33g from someone one time and when i broke the tank apart there was a layer of mud under the ugf it was like totally solidified almost till i moved it then it had the consistency of wet cornstarch personally im not much for a layer of sludge under my gravel

very sorry to hear of your fish dying on you

 

[henward]

When i was a kid, the LFS always pushed UGF cos its cheap
but canister is the way to go, or sump trickle system. As far as im concerned, those two are the onl;y filters i would use.

unless i had a constant water changing system

 

[Full Metal Gundam]

all that black stuff under the ugf was probably growing some anaroebic bacteria and also releasing some other bacteria in the water. I have never heard of any parasite stripping a aro of it's scales but in a bacteria case this could happen. Dropsy is a form of bacteria. also agree with the other bros about the limesstone. aros come from acidic to neutral water ph I really don't see a reason for using limestone as there is no way of controlling it's rise in ph.only fish I can think of using limestone with are African rift lake cichlids. better to go with a bare bottom tank.

 

[ctoychik]

Why didn't you house them in separate hospital tanks if they didn't get along in a big tank?

Anyway, sorry about your collection. It was nice.

I did separate them in their aquarium... somehow i don't think they died of fighting in the hospital tank ... i could not set-up four hospital tanks ...<sigh>...

Silly question but did you wash the gravel before you put it in the tank, and did you ever stir the gravel while it was in the tank?
I have pebbles in mine and have been thinking about changing for white sand, until I read that if you don't stir the sand byweekly gas like methaine(sp) can build up, that could have been the cause of the gasping(so my book says.)
Also leathal to fish.

Big pebbles are easy to stir so when I do water changes everything gets moved around, (in order to syphon all the pooh out.)
I also have a lot of goast Shrimp at the bottom of my tank, other fish pick them off but they eat fish pooh as well.
I am gutted for you because you were waiting for them due to the Thailand problems.
I'd also go with the parasite infection if they had string hanging out of the anal area.

The gravel was washed and washed wayyy before aros arrival when i was setting up my tiger barb collection out of boredom (+neons and hatchets). This set-up was never meant for these small guys - just out of the moment decision when they arrived. No i did not stir the gravel only vaccuum it during water changes - heaps of stuff was always coming out - clearly not enough judging by the black gunk that i found afterwards...

I don't think methane can build up in my case, because there was an undergravel filter so water was always moving ... in any case, i am in the process of getting rid of the black gravel in the black aquarium to be on the safe side

Hmmm, neon tetras were the newest arrivals from Bangkok (before blocade), but i don't think they were infected cos they were in the set-up for at least a week also.

Here i was worrying about the big fishes, while the small pretty one perished ... the problem comes from unexpected places... well i will start again when the big guys settle in.

Thanks for your condolences, dude

 

[ctoychik]

The UGF is really not good. for community tanks iwth tetras and stuff its ok, but i find that with meat eating fish, its a no no.
you see, meat eating fish have a short digestive system. rapid digestion means that the food is incomplete in its break down.
Plecos for example have very good digestion.

having a UGF means you have been storing the poo inthe gravel, out of sight but unfortunately not out of mind - by not syphonic the gravel, but even if you did you woulnd not get all of it cos you would find it hard to suck it through the UGF system.

The nitrite spike is a worry. but sometimes fish can survive that.

my main question:

WITH ALL THAT FISH, WHAT FILTRATION DO YOU EXACTLY HAVE?
if i had all that fish in my tank, i would have a filtratoin system that would turn over the water LITERALLY 12 to 15 times an hour. might sound extreme but it will avoid deaths like yours.

I am sorry for your loss, when i see those dead pics, i feel sad, i love aros! and catfish! but this is an expensive lesson for all of us too!

nitrite is a very silent and sudden killer i think.

the deaths can also be caused by parasite, but arowanas are very strong, most fish get sick and aros dont in same conditions because arowanas had millions of years to immunise...( all ancient fish have this benefit) but nitrite and fighting, open wounds and bad water would perhaps be a reason for this?

anyways, im not expert but i do have a few aros - to me , my highest priority is filtration and water parameters!

having gravel isnt bad, its the UGF i think, having fine substrate is good so dirt doesnt penetrate but the UGF will abnormally SUCK poo down to the bottom of the gravel where they can possibly ferment in a bad way polluting water.

limestone is also very basic. Did you know tha tlimestone can raise ph extremely. If you want a buffer and raise ph, aragonite is better. LIme stone is a soft rock and can break down in time as it reacts with the acidity in water and caused by fish poo.

anyways, thats my 2.5 cents.

but do tell us what filtration you have on which tanks and rating of litres per hour of output.

thanks

Yes, i think there is a reason why nobody with aros back home use UGF or substrate ... <sigh>... UGF system was never meant for the aros, it was just that they were so puny compared to their bigger cousins - morcel sized, so i did not go with my previous plan of housing them all together... i just thought to beef them up in the small aquarium then move them ... there was an issue of bigger aro not taking pellets and only live (so morcel sized aro did not seem like a very good idea - in hindsight shoulda rolled the damn dice)....

Death by nitrite spike would be plausible if i found them all upside down in the aquarium. All were alive (only HBRTG and green were affected) - i had a hell of time catching black and L25.

Hmmm, i will have to check the submersible pump rating on my other set-ups but here goes (i don't actually know how they are called - it would be create if someone can point the type of filter to me):

- Silver Tank (7'): submersible pump that runs the water through top over white cloth and bioballs + a glass tower filled with bioballs that sucks water through top and release at the bottom (included is a ventury for extra air), one big sponge filter + airstones. This tank is sumpless. In my estimate, in one hour it filters the tank at least 4-5 times (i really have to check the rating). The tank is bare bottom
- Asian Tank (8'): an inbuilt sump with bioballs and a submersible pump (same as in silver set-up minus ventury which came off), 6 large sponge filters (which L600 is destroying), airstones. The tank has a light gravel cover which i am removing with each water change now.
- Outdoor tank has a ridicoulous sump together with 2 overflow boxes with and three submersisble pumps. Big airpump for oxygen

No limestone for sure no more. i knew it was basic, but we did lab tests during construciton and it was supposed to be chemically stable!!

I wonder if it is possible for parasite to develop in the aquarium's filthy UGF bottom...otherwise i don't see how they come about. The fish were quarantined with vendor for ages!!! Besides, they were fine for 7 days while i was back home - i was away for less than 5 days!!!

I wonder if my medication killed them in the end - MALACHITE GREEN, but i have used it successfully on my outdoor set-up ... although it did kill off all the vegetation in that tank

 

[ctoychik]

i for one will never use an under gravel filter to much of a pain to clean the tank when you really have to clean it

also i bought a 33g from someone one time and when i broke the tank apart there was a layer of mud under the ugf it was like totally solidified almost till i moved it then it had the consistency of wet cornstarch personally im not much for a layer of sludge under my gravel

very sorry to hear of your fish dying on you

Thanks for your kind words - no UGF for me either as long as i live.

PS: i wonder if the fish needs to be taken out when cleaning UGF?