Part of the Ancient Treasures are RIP

[ctoychik]

When i was a kid, the LFS always pushed UGF cos its cheap
but canister is the way to go, or sump trickle system. As far as im concerned, those two are the onl;y filters i would use.

unless i had a constant water changing system

Yes, canister filter are used here alot ... is that the one with pump having a canister attached to it with an option of taking the water to the top over some external box?

Not sure what sump trickle system is - explain please?

 

[ctoychik]

all that black stuff under the ugf was probably growing some anaroebic bacteria and also releasing some other bacteria in the water. I have never heard of any parasite stripping a aro of it's scales but in a bacteria case this could happen. Dropsy is a form of bacteria. also agree with the other bros about the limesstone. aros come from acidic to neutral water ph I really don't see a reason for using limestone as there is no way of controlling it's rise in ph.only fish I can think of using limestone with are African rift lake cichlids. better to go with a bare bottom tank.

I have definitely learned my lesson wiht UGF and limestone. My father is currently bugging me to set-up another bigger tank for the growing jar - he wants gravel!!! i am not going there no more.

Barebottom all the way!!!!

This is really what i was wondering about bacteria being created in that black stuff ... any more thoughts on that?

 

[henward]

Hi ctoychik,
its good you are exploring all avenues.
some would be close minded and wouldnt admit that there is learning to be done. i for one, ask even if i am 90% sure of an answer, just so i have peace of mind. no harm in that right?? lol

canister filter:
http://www.hagen.com/uk/aquatic/manuals/fluve01.cfm
http://www.eheimasiapacific.com/prod_e_extfilter_classic.html
they are available everywhere, but they are expensive, the above brands are the top brands you can get, you can get cheap chinese knock offs. they work too, but less reliable.
Honestly, if you are investing Thousands on arowanas, catfish and other large fish - then canisters are great investment. Fluval FX5 is my best pick for value for money and effectiveness. Eheim is over priced, if you are rich, then eheim is the way to go

Sump and trickle system:

this is where your tank has an over flow. the water drops down to another tank at the bottom of the tank, in that tank is bio media, filter wool, then a return pump that pumps the water back to the top of the tank. where it over flows again. basically a sump and triple is a GIANT home made version of a canister external filter. same principle. its actualy cheaper to do this and very effective.

i think just remove the UGF completely, not as such bare bottom, a very thin layer of sandy substrate is good i think, to make the fish feel at home a little.

strange and bad bacteria would certainly be created in that black sludgy stuff, and thats probably one of the cause.
as rivers and lakes have algae blooms that kill fish, you had bacteria bloom.
they hide under the gravel and when the condition is right. there is a large accumulation of poo an stuff. then suddenly they multiply uncontrolably, and kill things.

a canister is great. all you do is open it, take out the old filter wool, and put new ones in, and you nevr have to syphon if you have bare bottom tank.
just water changes.

 

[CDickes1988]

Another lesson learned, though I've never heard good things about UGF's for the most part.

 

[aeri]

aside from the water etc. what could've happened was that the green aro was beaten up consistently until he lost all his scales, and through his stress developed ich or some other bacteria infections, which in turn infected the rest of the tank. leads to no eating, increased stress, and then in the late stages death.

there was one period where my fish were used to being fed twice a day, then i went for a 3 day vacation. came back, and i saw 1 of my tin foil barbs ripped up badly. and everyone in the tank had ich. if it wasn't for my paroon shark i wouldn't have realized that my otherfish were infected because they're scaled. my paroon was full of white spots and my jardini was flicking its scales against the walls. nobody ate. i separated the tinfoil into the 'sump' where it can't see anyone else, added loads of salt/stress coat and lightly treated the entire tank for ich with daily water changes. after 1.5 weeks the fish finally started eating again and the ich went away.

 

[ctoychik]

Hi ctoychik,
its good you are exploring all avenues.
some would be close minded and wouldnt admit that there is learning to be done. i for one, ask even if i am 90% sure of an answer, just so i have peace of mind. no harm in that right?? lol

canister filter:
http://www.hagen.com/uk/aquatic/manuals/fluve01.cfm
http://www.eheimasiapacific.com/prod_e_extfilter_classic.html
they are available everywhere, but they are expensive, the above brands are the top brands you can get, you can get cheap chinese knock offs. they work too, but less reliable.
Honestly, if you are investing Thousands on arowanas, catfish and other large fish - then canisters are great investment. Fluval FX5 is my best pick for value for money and effectiveness. Eheim is over priced, if you are rich, then eheim is the way to go

Sump and trickle system:

this is where your tank has an over flow. the water drops down to another tank at the bottom of the tank, in that tank is bio media, filter wool, then a return pump that pumps the water back to the top of the tank. where it over flows again. basically a sump and triple is a GIANT home made version of a canister external filter. same principle. its actualy cheaper to do this and very effective.

i think just remove the UGF completely, not as such bare bottom, a very thin layer of sandy substrate is good i think, to make the fish feel at home a little.

strange and bad bacteria would certainly be created in that black sludgy stuff, and thats probably one of the cause.
as rivers and lakes have algae blooms that kill fish, you had bacteria bloom.
they hide under the gravel and when the condition is right. there is a large accumulation of poo an stuff. then suddenly they multiply uncontrolably, and kill things.

a canister is great. all you do is open it, take out the old filter wool, and put new ones in, and you nevr have to syphon if you have bare bottom tank.
just water changes.

Ah yes, canister filter. I have one of these (eheim that i got from France some time ago) but i don't use it due to the fact that it can not start up iteself if there is a power failure - it needs to be primed and all that.

I am sump and trickle system. Airstone and sponges have DC batteries... i put in an airstone during power outage into the sump to aerate the biomedia to prevent it going anaerobic.

I don't know about barebottom, when i vaccumed the thin layer of gravel in my prized aquarium, there was stuff in it too - i don't think it can go anaerobic due to water flow, still it trapps poos and detrius quite a lot .... besides it gets sucked by my siphon quite readily... pain in the @ss

Barebottom always worked for me and i think i am reverting back to that

Yeah, i do think that the black stuff is the cause ... and of course, i am the course since i let unwitingly that black stuff to develop. I think it was there even before the aros arrived... the uneaten food got hairy fairly quickly - somehow i thought that was good since the water parameters were pristine in that aquarium in particular (too much BB which broke down ammonia and nitrite super quickly)

Thanks for your opinon

 

[ctoychik]

Another lesson learned, though I've never heard good things about UGF's for the most part.

Yes, lesson learned indeed... i suppose there is a reason i have never seen UGF back home with mosterfish

 

[ctoychik]

aside from the water etc. what could've happened was that the green aro was beaten up consistently until he lost all his scales, and through his stress developed ich or some other bacteria infections, which in turn infected the rest of the tank. leads to no eating, increased stress, and then in the late stages death.

there was one period where my fish were used to being fed twice a day, then i went for a 3 day vacation. came back, and i saw 1 of my tin foil barbs ripped up badly. and everyone in the tank had ich. if it wasn't for my paroon shark i wouldn't have realized that my otherfish were infected because they're scaled. my paroon was full of white spots and my jardini was flicking its scales against the walls. nobody ate. i separated the tinfoil into the 'sump' where it can't see anyone else, added loads of salt/stress coat and lightly treated the entire tank for ich with daily water changes. after 1.5 weeks the fish finally started eating again and the ich went away.

Ok, thanks for your opinion