Premium Golden Head Crossback from Sing Arowanas

[Avisek Dasgupta]

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Hi All,

I got this about five months back. Have been successfully able to maintain the head shine and colour in India. I was told that they have to be kept in white tank with 24 hours white T5 lights. I have done that for the past 5 months.

I am not sure whether I should continue with the 24 hours lights or switch over to standard day and night regime. I am worried the top including the head may turn black considering this cost me thousands of dollars. I have had this experience of a beautiful golden head turning completely black last year in my tan because I hadn't put 24 hours light.

Please let me know what you guys think about the quality of my dragon and whether the 24 hours light routine show be continued.

 

[islandguy11]

To view video Click Here

Hi All,

I got this about five months back. Have been successfully able to maintain the head shine and colour in India. I was told that they have to be kept in white tank with 24 hours white T5 lights. I have done that for the past 5 months.

I am not sure whether I should continue with the 24 hours lights or switch over to standard day and night regime. I am worried the top including the head may turn black considering this cost me thousands of dollars. I have had this experience of a beautiful golden head turning completely black last year in my tan because I hadn't put 24 hours light.

Please let me know what you guys think about the quality of my dragon and whether the 24 hours light routine show be continued.

There is no written rule that Xbacks "have to be in white tank with 24hr white lights". In fact many, incl. myself would argue that 24 hr. is kind of cruel and stressful for the fish.

Also some say that 24hr. lighting can contribute to dropeye (because arowana doesn't want to look up a bright light, so it looks down more -- and I can't tell for sure but it looks like your Aro's right eye is starting to droop -- your decision of course but I would highly recommend to stop the 24 hr lighting soon. If you're worried your Arowana will get spooked by lack of lighting (a good possibility since it's only been under 24hr lighting), then you can cover most of the tank with something but leave a small portion still lit -- then Aro can go to light or darker area as it pleases. Of course your Flagtail will also appreciate some break from the lighting.

If your Aro has good genetics, then it shouldn't lose it's shine or crossing by reducing lights to say 10 hr a day. Same applies to changing backgrounds to a darker color -- your fish will become darker/stronger golden color but it shouldn't reallly lose it's shine/crossing if it has good genetics, as a premium Qian Hu Arowana should.

 

[Avisek Dasgupta]

There is no written rule that Xbacks "have to be in white tank with 24hr white lights". In fact many, incl. myself would argue that 24 hr. is kind of cruel and stressful for the fish.

Also some say that 24hr. lighting can contribute to dropeye (because arowana doesn't want to look up a bright light, so it looks down more -- and I can't tell for sure but it looks like your Aro's right eye is starting to droop -- your decision of course but I would highly recommend to stop the 24 hr lighting soon. If you're worried your Arowana will get spooked by lack of lighting (a good possibility since it's only been under 24hr lighting), then you can cover most of the tank with something but leave a small portion still lit -- then Aro can go to light or darker area as it pleases. Of course your Flagtail will also appreciate some break from the lighting.

If your Aro has good genetics, then it shouldn't lose it's shine or crossing by reducing lights to say 10 hr a day. Same applies to changing backgrounds to a darker color -- your fish will become darker/stronger golden color but it shouldn't reallly lose it's shine/crossing if it has good genetics, as a premium Qian Hu Arowana should.

Thanks for the response. There is no way I can argue that 24 hours light isn't cruel. I also agree that the flag tail as well as the place would like it that way. But the fear of losing the crossing and head shine is stopping me. Last year I got an excellent golden head from a well known Malaysian farm with full head shine and crossing. In three months it turned into a high back because I had the lights turned off during the night. So that really worried me and when I was told that 24 hours light would help maintain the head shine and crossing I tried it and actually worked. So really confused here.

Also its not a Qian Hu fish. Its from Sing Arowanas.

 

[islandguy11]

Thanks for the response. There is no way I can argue that 24 hours light isn't cruel. I also agree that the flag tail as well as the place would like it that way. But the fear of losing the crossing and head shine is stopping me. Last year I got an excellent golden head from a well known Malaysian farm with full head shine and crossing. In three months it turned into a high back because I had the lights turned off during the night. So that really worried me and when I was told that 24 hours light would help maintain the head shine and crossing I tried it and actually worked. So really confused here.

Also its not a Qian Hu fish. Its from Sing Arowanas.

To be sure, there's tons of debate on the subject so not easy to make decisions -- everyone has to go with what they think is best.

I personally am skeptical that lighting itself caused your first golden head to lose its shine/crossing, imho it just didn't have the genetics -- in fact some dealers/brokers dishonestly sell WTT'd RTGs/highbacks as Crossbacks, then later owner is surprised when it loses crossing. Do you have any before/after pix or videos?

Not saying this is definitely what happened with yours, but again I don't think it was due to lighting -- I've only kept my Goldenhead (and also Blue Base Xback) in lighting of around 10 hr. a day -- since I've had them for about 10 months now, neither have lost any crossing or shine whatsoever.

Sorry to mix up farms, I think Sing Arowana also have a good reputation so I'd hope your current fish has some good genetics but I guess you won't know until you change the environment.

 

[Avisek Dasgupta]

To be sure, there's tons of debate on the subject so not easy to make decisions -- everyone has to go with what they think is best.

I personally am skeptical that lighting itself caused your first golden head to lose its shine/crossing, imho it just didn't have the genetics -- in fact some dealers/brokers dishonestly sell WTT'd RTGs/highbacks as Crossbacks, then later owner is surprised when it loses crossing. Do you have any before/after pix or videos?

Not saying this is definitely what happened with yours, but again I don't think it was due to lighting -- I've only kept my Goldenhead (and also Blue Base Xback) in lighting of around 10 hr. a day -- since I've had them for about 10 months now, neither have lost any crossing or shine whatsoever.

Sorry to mix up farms, I think Sing Arowana also have a good reputation so I'd hope your current fish has some good genetics but I guess you won't know until you change the environment.

Before:

After:

 

[islandguy11]

Well what you show in the videos pretty much corresponds to what you say above -- but imo it appears that your 1st Aro got its initially good goldenhead/crossing by WTT & 24 hr lighting, not good genes, and so lost some after lighting was lessened.

As I mentioned above with your current Aro I guess you won't know until you try, so you've got to decide which is more important for you: comfort of fish or (possibly but not for sure) losing some crossing. Or perhaps you could just lessen the lighting in increments and then see if it results in any changes. At the end of the day of course it's your fish, your call, keep us updated with which way you go.

 

[stratos]

For as long as I can recall, the guys who own Sing have practised 24/7 lighting. There was a time when they experimented with using brighter lights too. My understanding of the way the various farms use WTT is that each farm kind of has their own proprietary systems. There is a lot of overlap between them, but you will find differences too. Not all farms use 24/7.

The premium farms I deal with do not guarantee full helmet GH. The reason is that many customers either lack the skill or determination to keep up the WTT.

Since your fish comes from Sing, and since you want to keep the WTT and are prepared to follow the Sing practise, I think you have already answered your own question as to what you should do.

If you change the WTT process you are currently using, then in my opinion there is a very high chance your fish will lose some of its GH.

Here is a Sing Premium Full Helmet GH that was taken out of WTT when it was around 10-12 inches (that's my understanding). You will note it is at best 40-60% Gold Patches now, not full helmet. The fish is mature at about 20-22 inches size now. It is still a quality fish, but no longer a full helmet.

If I were you I would try and communicate with SING direct via FB and chat with them about your concerns.

 

[islandguy11]

For as long as I can recall, the guys who own Sing have practised 24/7 lighting. There was a time when they experimented with using brighter lights too. My understanding of the way the various farms use WTT is that each farm kind of has their own proprietary systems. There is a lot of overlap between them, but you will find differences too. Not all farms use 24/7.

The premium farms I deal with do not guarantee full helmet GH. The reason is that many customers either lack the skill or determination to keep up the WTT.

Since your fish comes from Sing, and since you want to keep the WTT and are prepared to follow the Sing practise, I think you have already answered your own question as to what you should do.

If you change the WTT process you are currently using, then in my opinion there is a very high chance your fish will lose some of its GH.

Here is a Sing Premium Full Helmet GH that was taken out of WTT when it was around 10-12 inches (that's my understanding). You will note it is at best 40-60% Gold Patches now, not full helmet. The fish is mature at about 20-22 inches size now. It is still a quality fish, but no longer a full helmet.

If I were you I would try and communicate with SING direct via FB and chat with them about your concerns.

This is interesting info, Thx for sharing. Btw, do you also deal with Malaysian Aro farms? I wouldn't doubt if they use similar practices to Singaporean farms insofar as WTT and lighting, but I'm just wondering if Malaysian Golds might have overall less propensity to drop their shine/crossing compared to Singaporean Aros after stopping these practices? I mean I know they're both the same fish, and Singapore produces some beautiful Arowana, but particularly with golds it's pretty much a moot point that Malaysians are the overall 'better' of the two. I'm not sure if this relates to losing crossing & coloration or not, just a little theory.

Other than this I can't explain why both my Aros (Malaysians) haven't lost any crossing or shine, though their farms most assuredly used WTT and likely lots of lighting before selling/sending them.

I tried WTT (except front glass) with my GHXB but (like many as you say) gave up after ~3 months for a couple of different reasons. It hasn't lost any crossing on its back (nearly full), or golden color on its head (also nearly full). In fact a few scales that were lost some time back near the top of its head are coming back in what appears to be shiny purple gold, not brown. With the BBXB it went straight into a darkish tank with not overly strong lighting. She isn't a goldenhead but she has some nice gold slivers on her head, they also haven't gone away in 10 months, and maybe have even increased a bit. Lighting (a couple of regular 6500k white LED household lights on each tank) is on about 10 hr/day.

I dunno, maybe I was just lucky, or who knows, maybe later they'll lose their crossing/gold coloration on heads. For now I'm just going to keep doing what I'm doing.

Avisek it will be interesting to hear any response you might get from Sing Arowana, plz share if you do.

 

[stratos]

My understanding is that there is very little actual Asian arowana farming still taking place in Singapore. This is due to new land use policies and changes in the cost of water use rates. Thus, pretty much all of the aros now come from brooders in Malaysia or Indonesia. Johore and the area around Bukit Merah is where a lot of Singapore farms have their "sister farms". And also up in Sabah, Indonesia. Singapore is now more of a distribution hub, with the Singapore "farms" being more like show rooms. There is still some smaller scale farming and large scale WTT grooming taking place. Its the large scale pond breeding that is ending. I know in the past proxy farms and home breeders were popular. I'm not sure if they are still very active or not. I plan on visiting SEAsia again soon and so look forward to learning more about the state of the aro industry then.

 

[islandguy11]

That is more interesting info S stratos . While I did know that Qian Hu has a sister farm here in Thailand, I wasn't aware of the new policies you mention in Singapore (but it makes total sense given how small it is), and that so many Aro farms there were evolving in the way you say.

Have a good trip out this way and would be much appreciated if you shared some of your findings afterwards.