Prove my dad wrong on oscars

[cockroach]

From writing as I am assuming OP is young or young"er". This all reeks of inexperience and a lack of appropriate knowledge of what to research. Go through this forum and there are a multitude of threads and posts about jags in tanks way smaller than 400gal. Some even packed 400gal tanks.

Growing out an oscar to put in a 400gal pond is a responsible thing to do given the pond was already running and not, as is often the case, "I will gety it when I need it."
The immediate blasting of OP who maybe did research but was inadequate, did not validate the raging.

I use this example below to show the more metered responses to a poster that OBVIOUSLY knew SFA and did SFA research yet was treated with the respect that has kept me on this forum for almost 2 decades.



OP: you made a mistake. Learn from it and try to better your research, or ask better questions from a super knowledgeable forum.

MFK ppl: Don't become that forum that blasts people willy-nilly. I have left countless forums, many of which don't exist any more, due to these keyboard warriors.

A reply like Duanes, explains WHY OP is ill-informed. Not just that he is wrong and dumb. Come on ppl, as a collective forum we are better than this. If OP had posed the question: Can a jag and an oscar live in a 400gal pond? Who, in their right mind would have said no. So let's not act like this youngster threw an oscar under bus and watched it drive over it. Many people here post about adding new fish to their ponds etc.

MFK vets are easy to spot in their answers that lack the dripping disdain of internet enlightened MFK people. And I believe these people mean well, but I fear, the forum will start taking after the internet in general if we do not curate what we are saying and assessing whether our answers are us taking a jab or are constructive criticism.
Let's be a community where new keen members can answer the mundane rehashed questions while ppl with actual experience lurk and correct where need be or offer anecdotes to help a situation or poster.

 

[krichardson]

So,are you really 92 years old?

 

[phreeflow]

The kid came to ask for advice, got ripped a new one, apologized, and is now considering quitting the hobby. This kind of stuff is hard to watch.

 

[Cal Amari]

It's hard when starting out, especially if you feel like everyone around you may be doing something the wrong way. And we've all made mistake, and learned from them hopefully. You can't undo what has already been done, but you can move forward with a better understanding of what you're comfortable with.

I suggest you leave the pond to your dad, it's really hard to change someones mind about what they've already decided to do. Take the 15 gallon for yourself and start slow to learn the hobby your own way. Not sure whats available near you, but you could do something like a crayfish and small school of fast swimmers like danios, or maybe a dwarf gourami and some tetras or danios, and a few cory cats, even that may be a bit too full.

Keep it simple and be patient. When you have a tank and put baby fish in it's easy to think it's still too empty, but wait it out, let them get their own community going and let them grow, in a year or 2 it won't seem so small at all. The hobby is a lot more enjoyable, fun, and even relaxing when you're not constantly stressed by your fish.

 

[Cal Amari]

And by the way, it takes a lot of courage to come on here and admit when you've made a mistake and a fish has died. Trust me, every fishkeeper has had a fish die on them. Forgiveness is for yourself to give, not this collection of strangers. Just keep trying to learn.

Is the pond filtered? if so you may be able to use some media from it for your 15 gallon if you try starting your own small community. If not then you'll need to learn about cycling a tank, which is totally learnable, just keep asking questions.

 

[Cichlids-r-beasts]

Look man, we’ve all been there. Granted I’m sure most of us haven’t done anything this extreme I guess but trust me, even the most experienced of fish keepers have been humbled countless times. It doesn’t matter how many fish you’ve owned, how many tanks you have or how long you’ve been in the hobby, it WILL find ways to humble you and you’ll always learn something new. None of us here know everything, it’s impossible to.

The best advice I can give you is RESEARCH RESEARCH RESEARCH. I can’t highlight this enough. You’re obviously hurt about the Oscar situation and it shows that you care but I think you should’ve known better in my opinion. I can’t begin to imagine a 10 (?) inch fish in a 30 gallon. Your O outgrew the 30 gallon as soon as it hit 5-6 inches imo. I’ll have to disagree with you on the living in a 10 foot hole than dying. In the words of Killmonger “death is better than bondage”. There is absolutely no quality of life there, what’s the point in living if you have no “freedom”? That’s not living at all, so agree to disagree.

Anyway, as for everyone jumping on the harsh bandwagon, I’m sure he knows what he did after the first message ripping him a new one, so we all didn’t need to come down on him basically parroting the same thing.

OP, you are always welcome in the hobby as long as you are not abusing your fish. If you need to take some time out and do your research before you get back into the hobby then by all means do it but you shouldn’t quit the hobby. If you do things right it you’ll find it VERY VERY rewarding. I can’t speak for everyone but I will welcome you back with open arms. Though it’s easy to get carried away in the hobby so that’s why it’s important to know your limits.

 

[jjohnwm]

The kid came to ask for advice, got ripped a new one, apologized, and is now considering quitting the hobby. This kind of stuff is hard to watch.

Speaking as the initial "ripper", I can see how it is uncomfortable to see a new aquarist getting blasted; he feels bad about what happened and it's not something that is enjoyable to watch. But...it's also not doing him any favours to tell him that it's okay, that everyone does it, that he shouldn't worry about it. To be blunt: he should feel bad. We've all made dumb mistakes and we've all killed fish, although the degree of research that is done before the blunder occurs...and thus the severity of the blunder... varies from one person to the next. He says that he initially had a feeling that the commonly-seen levels of overstocking he observed were not acceptable...but that in time he came to accept them as being "fine". How should an observer react to a statement like that?

I know that I feel horrible when a fish in my care dies; it's got nothing to do with "loving" the fish, either, because I certainly don't "love" them. I feel a moral responsibility to an animal which is in my care; when something bad happens, it is my responsibility, even for things like heater malfunctions or burst tanks or jumpers or the many other things that are often written off as "just one of those things, beyond our control". It's easy to control all that stuff; just don't bring the fish into your house in the first place. It can't be cooked by a defective heater, or jump through a flimsy lid or be killed in any of those other ways if it isn't there.

But, if we keep them, we must accept that what happens to them, good or bad, is all on us. If we don't feel bad when they are unnecessarily killed or abused, then...well, stating that some people simply shouldn't keep fish seems to be considered the ultimate crime, but it's also the truth. I'm not saying that's the case here...in fact, the OP seems to feel legitimate remorse and that's a vital element in the make-up of someone who wants to keep live animals.

But if a person is too lazy or too vain to do proper research...in a day and age when it is so easy to do and so much information is easily accessible by literally anybody...they need to be called on it.

 

[Cichlids-r-beasts]

Speaking as the initial "ripper", I can see how it is uncomfortable to see a new aquarist getting blasted; he feels bad about what happened and it's not something that is enjoyable to watch. But...it's also not doing him any favours to tell him that it's okay, that everyone does it, that he shouldn't worry about it. To be blunt: he should feel bad. We've all made dumb mistakes and we've all killed fish, although the degree of research that is done before the blunder occurs...and thus the severity of the blunder... varies from one person to the next. He says that he initially had a feeling that the commonly-seen levels of overstocking he observed were not acceptable...but that in time he came to accept them as being "fine". How should an observer react to a statement like that?

I know that I feel horrible when a fish in my care dies; it's got nothing to do with "loving" the fish, either, because I certainly don't "love" them. I feel a moral responsibility to an animal which is in my care; when something bad happens, it is my responsibility, even for things like heater malfunctions or burst tanks or jumpers or the many other things that are often written off as "just one of those things, beyond our control". It's easy to control all that stuff; just don't bring the fish into your house in the first place. It can't be cooked by a defective heater, or jump through a flimsy lid or be killed in any of those other ways if it isn't there.

But, if we keep them, we must accept that what happens to them, good or bad, is all on us. If we don't feel bad when they are unnecessarily killed or abused, then...well, stating that some people simply shouldn't keep fish seems to be considered the ultimate crime, but it's also the truth. I'm not saying that's the case here...in fact, the OP seems to feel legitimate remorse and that's a vital element in the make-up of someone who wants to keep live animals.

But if a person is too lazy or too vain to do proper research...in a day and age when it is so easy to do and so much information is easily accessible by literally anybody...they need to be called on it.

I agree with everything you said, yes he needed to hear it, sometimes you just have to say it how it is and not sugarcoat it. What I didn’t like (and maybe it’s just me here) was the others basically parroting what you said and basically trying to make him feel worse than he already has.

 

[EricTheRed]

I recommend the OP find a beautiful Betta and keep it on the 15 gallon as a wet pet. The Betta will be happy and so will you. If you really want to get another Oscar, be sure to rehome the Jag first, then you could keep 3-4 Oscar’s in the 400G provided you have a lot of filtration and do weekly water changes. Good luck.

 

[ken31cay]

I would hope the OP would take the good advice said here, but not take it personally. If you enjoy the hobby then by all means continue. Don't quit; get back on your horse and have another go at it.

I think it's safe to say that we've all caused or allowed fish in our care to die which could have been avoided if we'd done something different. It is a learning process for us all, and OP appears to be young and/or just starting out in the hobby. I consider myself a fairly responsible fish keeper at this point but I have no issue admitting that I've killed many fish over the years.

What was said might have needed to be said, but in any case it's a done deal. Looks to me like he recieved the message loud and clear. I think the right thing to do now would be to encourage OP in the hobby.