Question About My Discus

[mtnkngxt]

*Before my Question and the Flaming*
I know what the Nitrogen cycle is and the meaning of a water change lol

*Now the Question*
Ok so after extensive reading and research, and going to see friend's Discus tanks, I decided to switch my 35 Hex community into a Discus grow out tank. So I traded in my small jellybean, a rescued gold severum, and my clown loaches ( prevent aggression during feeding). So then I had 2 boesmanni rainbows and a cory cat and a pair of sailfin Mollys. I over a week raised the temperature to 85, and then gradually lowered the ph down to 6.8. At that point I let everything sit and did partial water changes just to get it perfect. My Gh and Kh were perfect. My nitrates and ammonia were 0ppm. My nitrites were 10ppm but with water changes they were 0ppm in a day. I then let the tank sit for 3 more days, checking levels doing water changes and so forth. I had ordered 2 2 inch red and turqouise discus from our supplier. So Wed I received them and one of them looked like their fins had gone through a shredder. The supplier wouldnt except responsibility for it and I want to choke them , instead I called and yelled repeatedly . So I placed him a 15 gallon sick tank and have been treating with stress coat and maracyn. It looks like its getting better slowly. Anyways I brought the other Discus home and Drip aclimated him using air tubing and a gang valve to control the water flow. I did this 4 times until I was sure the paramaters were the same. I then let the little one loose and he was fine. Last night I get home from work and the tank looks like milk. I immediately throw an aerator in there just as a percaution and check levels. Everything is at 0ppm. So I'm stumped as to what could be causing this. Im running an Emperor 280, an AC 50 powerhead with filter. and a fluval in tank filter and power head. The tank has a quarter inch of gravel and is vaccumed every other day. I do water changes every day 30%. So my question is could anyone give me an idea of what it could be. I know that this thread is worthless without pictures, but tell that to the guy that broke into my house and stole it lol.

 

[reptileguy2727]

Does the tank have 10ppm nitrites or nitrates? You said nitrites, but nitrates makes more sense.

Honestly I usually ignore test results and go by what the tank is telling you. A milky cloudiness to the tank (especially after new additions or lots of cleaning) is a bacterial bloom because the tank is cycling or re-cycling. Now your test results do not support that, but that is what the tank is telling you.

 

[mtnkngxt]

Thats exactly what I thought was that it was recycling and I was worried about an ammonia spike. It was reading nitrites not nitrates as both you and I expected. So I suppose it is a waiting game to see. I tested again this morning eveything reads 0 and so I'm quite uneasy about the current situation. Could it be that with the increased bioload from the Discus, that the new addition caused a bacteria bloom. I think I may have understocked the tank and in doing so have starved the bacteria.

Before the Dicus there were only 2 boesmanni, a 1/2 inch gold severum, 1/2 inch jelly bean, a neon, a platy, 2 small loaches, and a cory.

For the last week and a half there have been 2 boesmanni, a cory, and a platy, and within the last 3 days I have added a pair of Sailfin Mollies and a Discus.

 

[wizzin]

you said you do 30% water changes every day. Is that with tap water, R/O water, aged water? This is important. Why? Well, it could be if you are using tap water with a chlorine treatment and adding it quickly that there may still be enough chlorine present to kill the bacteria. Chlorine kills bacteria. That's what it's for. You may have killed off most of your bacteria with all the water changing, and it would read zero because you're really just reading your tap water. I would bet that at this point, you have a cycling tank, and a few of the most sensitive fish to keep in it. If you have an established tank, I suggest you acclimate the discus to that tank water's perameters very slowly, and go buy some danios for your 35gal and let it properly cycle by not changing so much water so frequently. Let it set for a week or two and let the bacteria establish.

This isn't directed at you, but rather to the W/C nuts that try to tell everyone that discus need 50% W/C daily. At that point, you have no filter. You are the filter. You can't expect a bacteria colony to establish if you constantly manually remove the nutrients they need to survive. Sure your water is free of contaminants, but only because you're constantly removing them yourself. That's not fish keeping, that's just water changing. Set it up and get it stable on it's own, then change 25% a week.

 

[mtnkngxt]

Hey thanks for the reply I appreciate the helpful insight, and not the flaming. Some boards people take low post count to mean newb, but I haven't gotten that here.

I have 2 75 gallon drums that I use as an aging facility. I run aerators and pumps on both in order to keep the water from going stagnate. I fill each barrel and let it run for a week. So in essence one drum is aging and the other is my water change barrel. If that makes sense. So each week I use water that has been aging for a week. I know 75 gallons is not 30% each day Its less.

The water change argument has me fighting in my head. I have heard arguments from both sides but in a tank this small I just can't feel safe only changing once a week.

I still think your right about the bacteria bloom

 

[wizzin]

Hey thanks for the reply I appreciate the helpful insight, and not the flaming. Some boards people take low post count to mean newb, but I haven't gotten that here.

I have 2 75 gallon drums that I use as an aging facility. I run aerators and pumps on both in order to keep the water from going stagnate. I fill each barrel and let it run for a week. So in essence one drum is aging and the other is my water change barrel. If that makes sense. So each week I use water that has been aging for a week. I know 75 gallons is not 30% each day Its less.

The water change argument has me fighting in my head. I have heard arguments from both sides but in a tank this small I just can't feel safe only changing once a week.

I still think your right about the bacteria bloom

Yeah, that information helps. Hopefully some of my rambling helps Makes it more difficult, but helps. It may still be possible that the water changing killed off a lot of the bacteria. The water changes coupled with the low bio-load would've weakened the colony, and like I said, would've still shown zero on the test kits. What caused the bloom, though is a bit of a mystery. The discus shouldn't have increased the bio-load enough to cause a full blown bloom. What was the feeding schedule like? What kind of food did you feed them? I would be concerned about as the bloom dies off, the nitrites produced by the dieing bacteria will increase gradually until the "other" bacteria balance it out.

I always argue the big waterchange schedule thing. Sure, both methods will successfully raise discus. The constant water changes will certainly keep safe levels of NH3, NO2 and NO3, and keep essential trace elements high, but only artificially. My personal preference is a more natural biological system and the addition of electrolytes and trace elements, then the weekly changes to keep No3 low or nil.

Good luck with this! Keep us posted.

 

[WyldFya]

First thing, you need to tell us what the cloud looks like. Milk color wouldn't be ammonia if you have discus, or rainbow fish. For ammonia to reach that point, your fish would all be dead. Next, the bacteria thought, is backwards. Bacterial blooms, that are white, are not the type of bacteria that are housed in a filter.

 

[WyldFya]

you said you do 30% water changes every day. Is that with tap water, R/O water, aged water? This is important. Why? Well, it could be if you are using tap water with a chlorine treatment and adding it quickly that there may still be enough chlorine present to kill the bacteria. Chlorine kills bacteria. That's what it's for. You may have killed off most of your bacteria with all the water changing, and it would read zero because you're really just reading your tap water. I would bet that at this point, you have a cycling tank, and a few of the most sensitive fish to keep in it. If you have an established tank, I suggest you acclimate the discus to that tank water's perameters very slowly, and go buy some danios for your 35gal and let it properly cycle by not changing so much water so frequently. Let it set for a week or two and let the bacteria establish.

This isn't directed at you, but rather to the W/C nuts that try to tell everyone that discus need 50% W/C daily. At that point, you have no filter. You are the filter. You can't expect a bacteria colony to establish if you constantly manually remove the nutrients they need to survive. Sure your water is free of contaminants, but only because you're constantly removing them yourself. That's not fish keeping, that's just water changing. Set it up and get it stable on it's own, then change 25% a week.

25% a week isn't natural at all for discus. Your talking about fish that are use to 100% water changes every couple minutes. Their natural habitat is river systems. The water isn't stagnant, it flows, and not in a circle. In order to raise discus well to a full grown, un-stunted size your TDS must stay low. Generally, this is something only hardcore discus keepers watch. A bare minimum that I recommend for discus is 50% once a week. Filters will still be in use. One water change a day isn't enough to starve the entire bacteria colony. The purpose of it is to remove the excess nitrates that will be in the water after the colony has converted it all over to nitrate. The bacteria colony won't be quite as large as if the tank were only changed once a week, but the fish will be healthier. Water changes is part of the hobby, and one that is part of the basic foundations for fish keeping. This is the reason we have things like Rally's auto water changer.

 

[wizzin]

25% a week isn't natural at all for discus. Your talking about fish that are use to 100% water changes every couple minutes. Their natural habitat is river systems. The water isn't stagnant, it flows, and not in a circle. In order to raise discus well to a full grown, un-stunted size your TDS must stay low. Generally, this is something only hardcore discus keepers watch. A bare minimum that I recommend for discus is 50% once a week. Filters will still be in use. One water change a day isn't enough to starve the entire bacteria colony. The purpose of it is to remove the excess nitrates that will be in the water after the colony has converted it all over to nitrate. The bacteria colony won't be quite as large as if the tank were only changed once a week, but the fish will be healthier. Water changes is part of the hobby, and one that is part of the basic foundations for fish keeping. This is the reason we have things like Rally's auto water changer.

I agree, but it is not 100% necessary for discus, unless you want to breed them, or make them grow like weeds. There are discussions all over the place that support that. One current thread on the planted tank shows a 75 that's gone months without W/C. Sure, that's a different story with planted tanks, but the TDS in that tank has to be off the chart.

 

[WyldFya]

TDS in a planted tank doesn't apply to the same rules as the tanks that do not have plants. My planted tank gets a water change when it hits 200 ppm or higher. That often takes 2-3 weeks, and only if I am dosing ferts. Plants are removing many nutrients and using them for photosynthesis, effectively removing them from the water column. If you want discus that are not stunted keeping your TDS low is key, and unless you have plants, that means large water changes.