Question About My Discus

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WyldFya;1160720; said:
TDS in a planted tank doesn't apply to the same rules as the tanks that do not have plants. My planted tank gets a water change when it hits 200 ppm or higher. That often takes 2-3 weeks, and only if I am dosing ferts. Plants are removing many nutrients and using them for photosynthesis, effectively removing them from the water column. If you want discus that are not stunted keeping your TDS low is key, and unless you have plants, that means large water changes.
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yes, you're right the solids that plants consume will stay low, but without doing w/c for months, the solids that the plants don't consume would still build, and in months of time, the tds would have to be high.

Look, I guarantee that if you took 6 discus in a 72gal and did daily w/c, you would have huge fat healthy discus. I think to say that putting 6 discus in a 72 and not doing daily w/c that you'll kill, stunt or otherwise abuse the fish by doing so is a bit harsh. I don't have any discus anymore (though I'm working on setting up a discus tank again), but when I kept them, they got 1 w/c a month with all the other tanks. I did have some java moss and java fern, but it was by no means a "planted tank", and those discus thrived for years until I had to move and sold them. I had them breed regularly, though the parents were never separated from the others and allowed to raise the fry. They bred in 6.8pH at a temp of 84. I didn't even use R/O water at the time. Just treated/aged tap water with a few drops of boiled down peat water.
 
Never said anything about abuse, nor killing them, but you will stunt them by doing that. By high tds, you must mean high for a discus, because my tank has gotten by for over a month, and my TDS was still only 225. Average tapwater has a TDS of 300 in the US, so the TDS still isn't high by standard levels.
 
Discus are much hardier than they used to be, besides wild caught and high end ones. Those are more sensitive than assorted discus out of the LFS.

My tank has no plants in it. It is a 150. There are 5 discus, an 18" tiretrack eel, 6 silver dollars (2.5-3" long), 4 bristlenose plecos, a gold nugget, 2 Synodontis eupterus, and 2 bichirs (5-6"). I do water changes every week or two (or three) at about 50-75% each time. Mine have slowed down their growth rate, but are doing quite well. I am on well that is very hard (pH stays about 7.8 or so). Each person's care is different, and each discus is different.

The milky discoloration is nitrifying bacteria over-populating because of the abundance of nutrients for them (ammonia and nitrites). If this was not the case then they would not occur in uncycled tanks and tanks that have either had too many fish added at once recently or been cleaned too thoroughly. This is why they occur as the nutrients go and and then go away when they disappear.

Lots of water changes are a good thing, unless you screw something up. 30% water changes is not enough to keep things down at 0, even at a daily frequency. I do not believe discus need 90% daily changes. However I am surprised that yours did so well with the schedule described. I think it is a good thing that yours did that well. However, I also don't think all will do as well as yours did on that schedule. Either way, every discus keeper needs to figure out his minimum water change schedule, which it seems everyone here is doing.
 
Well the mystery is solved. BLAME THE GIRLFRIEND :nilly: The tank in question resides in my Girlfriends apartment which is basically home. I'm there every day and they do not allow tanks in my residence hall, so I stash stuff at her place. I had left a pack of Maracyn on top of my supply cabinet over there next to the food. So apparently when she was feeding the fish around noon she was putting a maracyn in thinking it was food :irked:. So when every day when I have come home I see white cloud from the medicine. So hopefully tommorow will bring much happier results. This is mostly my fault for leaving it next to the food and it isnt labeled so I have to cut her some slack.
 
Good to see you've got that problem solved. Discus are not good in pairs, you should be going with a group, 6 would be best. Next problem that 35g tank is too small for a group so figure on finding a larger tank, like a 75g.

No matter what you should be doing at least two 50% W/C a week, unless you are monitoring TDS in a well established planted tank such as wyldfya has.
 
I'm well aware of the space confinement issues. They will only be in the 35 for another month or two and they are tiny right now. I have a 90, 40 bow, 26 flat back hex, a 20 hex, this 35 hex, a 55 a 56 cube and 2 14g biocubes. They all except for this one are in storage as I cant trust my parents to take care of the tanks while Im at college once I move off campus in January the fun begins.
 
just about every species in this hobby gets 250% w/c in nature. Just about every species in this hobby is stunted relative to their wild counterparts. Convicts will grow slower and reach a smaller adult size with less w/c too. For some reason though, we only talk about stunted growth with discus. Why?
 
wizzin;1162822; said:
just about every species in this hobby gets 250% w/c in nature. Just about every species in this hobby is stunted relative to their wild counterparts. Convicts will grow slower and reach a smaller adult size with less w/c too. For some reason though, we only talk about stunted growth with discus. Why?
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Could be that it is just more prevalent with discus, most other fish can also trive in water conditions that discus will barely survive in.
 
Under-cared for fish don't reach wild sizes, but most should be par with nature if properly cared for. And there is A LOT of variation naturally. A range of natural sizes is ideal for a species (variability means adaptability, which means the species goes on when otherwise it may not have). And it is not just captivity or one person's method that stunts a fish, it is the natural variability as well as those conditions that can stunt a fish. And it is a concern for other fish as well. How many fancy goldfish have you seen with a body the size of your fist? Not many, because they are stunted too. Most oscars don't hit anything close to their full potential, because so many are stunted. As stated, the relatively low hardiness of discus amplifies the effects of stunting. What would be 'okay' or 'good' in other fish can lead to a very pathetic looking discus.

There is no water change equivalent to nature. The fish density is much lower, the water change is continuous, the waters change throughout the year, there are MANY ecological things going on that we can't even touch. So there is no equivalent. The best we can do is the best we can do.
 
Tank raised Discus often get larger than their wild counter part if well cared for.
They don't have to struggle to live in captivity but wild fish do in their habitats.
There is an annual dry season when water quality drops, food supplies run low and the same number of fish are competing in less water.

The heterotrophic bacteria in cloudy water are not the same bacteria that facilitate the nitrogen cycle. The nitrifying bacteria live on the substrates of the filter media and all immersed surfaces.

Make all the water changes in the world on your Discus tank and you will still have a viable biological filter.

Aging and dechloring the water are good practices but it is perfectly alright to add the dechlor and top off straight from the tap as long as that is the standard water the Discus are used to.

I could write a book about all the "urban myths" surrounding the keeping and breeding of Discus.:ROFL:
 
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