These are great points Aqua man actually has started a thread simular to what you are saying his point being an actual smaller varient not so much physical apperance...My point being actually take your three last photo's a ray with spectacular markings with age do they disapear???? or is it that a ho hum Marble is a ho hum marble antd thats that ...Or with good or great care does a marble get become beautiful and stay beautiful through it's entire life point being i have seen average Marbles have spetacular pups does this go away or it's entire life does it only improve with it's substantial care ?????
QUESTION ON MARBLE MOTOROS
- Thread starter HULON
- Start date
I know some marbles loose there patterns but not all. I have 2 big girls with there patterns still looking great, all depends on the genes.
24" Marble:
20" Marble:
24" Marble:
20" Marble:
John those are amazing. Wish I had some hands on great size girls like that!!!!
Hulon you hit on my next point. I noted the size of the claspers on both of my rays in my post. My nicer of the two marble is 13", the lesser of the two is 12". However, the 13" marble has well developed claspers while the 12" fish hardly has nubs. What I hope and think is that my 13" MM may be a smaller variety. He matured must faster than the other. I feel that these rays may be cross breeding which would explain why some so so fish can produce nice pups. If we cross a so so female MM with a nice male you will get a mixture. or perhaps some of the so so MM we buy may carry a genetic trait from a fish which breed itself in generations back. I have been entertaining myself with this idea for a bit now. I got so tired of hearing from everyone that I should enjoy my MM while they are small because they will all turn crappy later, I really hope this is not the case lol.
Hulon you hit on my next point. I noted the size of the claspers on both of my rays in my post. My nicer of the two marble is 13", the lesser of the two is 12". However, the 13" marble has well developed claspers while the 12" fish hardly has nubs. What I hope and think is that my 13" MM may be a smaller variety. He matured must faster than the other. I feel that these rays may be cross breeding which would explain why some so so fish can produce nice pups. If we cross a so so female MM with a nice male you will get a mixture. or perhaps some of the so so MM we buy may carry a genetic trait from a fish which breed itself in generations back. I have been entertaining myself with this idea for a bit now. I got so tired of hearing from everyone that I should enjoy my MM while they are small because they will all turn crappy later, I really hope this is not the case lol.
Beautiful specimens the both of them..MY whole thing question or thought if you will is the Ray a Ray responds to how it is treated more so then the age of it ..I am sure just like people a ray mage age poorly LOL!!!I would hate to even think beauty only last's a very short time like us as people ...
I hope this is not the case also for sure ....
I agree with this completely! But I would say this goes to be said for most any fish. They change there pigment according. darker rays usually look better on dark and vis versa.
I visited H20 last year and he said that much of the pattern and quality has to do with age. Just like people rays peak as mentioned earlier. even the spots on Leo will become spaced and dull after time. This can also be said for most fish and animals alike. Nothing last forever.
My .02...
They're like people UNLESS you have a stand out, against the norm case. I've seen several examples of the un-typical, Aquaman's pair, and Skynoch has one, of the sort that seem to continue to keep thier stellar looks. But most that do keep thier pattern are like people in the sense that they seem to peak then decline.
My big girl still looks nice. BUT on the same note I don't think she'll ever look as good as she did at 12". Maybe with proper care I can prove this wrong, as she has been in a pond for a looong time, so it will take months if not years to restore the pattern, but I'm not holding my breath. I messed up by ever keeping mine in a pond. Maybe I have some that continue to improve, but with the pond being a pattern wrecking detour I've kinda had a wrench thrown into my observations, but won't know for sure for a long time.
I'd like to ask both Skynoch and Aquaman, on your rays, do you truley believe they are the best they've ever looked everyday, OR did they look thier best in the past?
dparks- IF you're male is already at 13" more then likely I bet he'll land in tthe same category as Aquaman's, and my big male. I'd guess 15-16". While still smaller then some of the "typical" Marbles or plain Motoros, I think most of these "mini" Marble males seem to quit or slow to a crawl around 10" with maturity coming as soon as 6-7".
It's been pretty much proven IMO that dark enviroments/substrates aren't good for Marbles. The best combo I've found is very light substrate with larger black rock accents. Natural colored stuff seems to work well also. Blue seems to be good for bringing out patterns. Lighting plays a large part. Hit them with some halides for a while and this can bring some pop. I bet natural sunlight would do wonders.
To touch base on the nice pups from average parents...... Mine turned ugly, was out of this world up to 8" but then went south. NOT saying all do this. We're all learning everyday here, just sharing my firsthand experience. There's thread if you search. But I also have a nice pup here from 2 parents neither being out of this world but she's 2+years old and still looks crazy, but she's still only 7".
They're like people UNLESS you have a stand out, against the norm case. I've seen several examples of the un-typical, Aquaman's pair, and Skynoch has one, of the sort that seem to continue to keep thier stellar looks. But most that do keep thier pattern are like people in the sense that they seem to peak then decline.
My big girl still looks nice. BUT on the same note I don't think she'll ever look as good as she did at 12". Maybe with proper care I can prove this wrong, as she has been in a pond for a looong time, so it will take months if not years to restore the pattern, but I'm not holding my breath. I messed up by ever keeping mine in a pond. Maybe I have some that continue to improve, but with the pond being a pattern wrecking detour I've kinda had a wrench thrown into my observations, but won't know for sure for a long time.
I'd like to ask both Skynoch and Aquaman, on your rays, do you truley believe they are the best they've ever looked everyday, OR did they look thier best in the past?
dparks- IF you're male is already at 13" more then likely I bet he'll land in tthe same category as Aquaman's, and my big male. I'd guess 15-16". While still smaller then some of the "typical" Marbles or plain Motoros, I think most of these "mini" Marble males seem to quit or slow to a crawl around 10" with maturity coming as soon as 6-7".
It's been pretty much proven IMO that dark enviroments/substrates aren't good for Marbles. The best combo I've found is very light substrate with larger black rock accents. Natural colored stuff seems to work well also. Blue seems to be good for bringing out patterns. Lighting plays a large part. Hit them with some halides for a while and this can bring some pop. I bet natural sunlight would do wonders.
To touch base on the nice pups from average parents...... Mine turned ugly, was out of this world up to 8" but then went south. NOT saying all do this. We're all learning everyday here, just sharing my firsthand experience. There's thread if you search. But I also have a nice pup here from 2 parents neither being out of this world but she's 2+years old and still looks crazy, but she's still only 7".
Some very interesting points everyone.
Well Alan i would have to say my pair have retained most of the pattern they had from say 3 years old,they are now in their 13th year,ofcourse the sharpness isnt quite as strong,all animals lose a bit of their sparkle with age,people are no different,its called getting older..lol!! I will post some upto date pics soon,ive just moved them which as upset them a little.
Im not too sure about the substrate thing,my friend Leevan sent me a pic of his male Marble pup he had from me the other day...i have to say WOW!! it looks amazing,the colour and pattern is so dark, and guess what? he keeps them on a glass bottom with white poly tiles underneath,all his marbles he's ever had were kept this way and the markings were very dark.I will add a picture soon to prove this.
John your Marbles are living proof that top quality Marbles retain their patterns,those females are real nice lookers.
dparks82,your first male in your pictures is one of the larger strain,he will make a big fish and in my opinion the pattern will fade to a point where no marbling will be seen.The male in the pictures below is a very nice fish,i personally think this one is one of the smaller Marbles even though it is 13",my guess is it wont grow much more that one,one of the bigger smaller ones if that makes sense.
Alan i agree,Skynoch has the exact same morph as me,this type are very few and far between.
Back to these smaller Marbles,it seems there are more of these with strong patterns than the regular Marbles,it will be interesting to see if they also retain their patterns,there's enough of us to find out if they will or not,the exciting thing is i think we have safely established that there really is a smaller type of Marble motoro which can only be good for the hobby,however what we still don't know is what river system (tributary) are they found.
Here's Lee's pup he bought from me,he's a good size and his claspers are very well developed...he's on a glass bottom don't forget.
Well Alan i would have to say my pair have retained most of the pattern they had from say 3 years old,they are now in their 13th year,ofcourse the sharpness isnt quite as strong,all animals lose a bit of their sparkle with age,people are no different,its called getting older..lol!! I will post some upto date pics soon,ive just moved them which as upset them a little.
Im not too sure about the substrate thing,my friend Leevan sent me a pic of his male Marble pup he had from me the other day...i have to say WOW!! it looks amazing,the colour and pattern is so dark, and guess what? he keeps them on a glass bottom with white poly tiles underneath,all his marbles he's ever had were kept this way and the markings were very dark.I will add a picture soon to prove this.
John your Marbles are living proof that top quality Marbles retain their patterns,those females are real nice lookers.
dparks82,your first male in your pictures is one of the larger strain,he will make a big fish and in my opinion the pattern will fade to a point where no marbling will be seen.The male in the pictures below is a very nice fish,i personally think this one is one of the smaller Marbles even though it is 13",my guess is it wont grow much more that one,one of the bigger smaller ones if that makes sense.
Alan i agree,Skynoch has the exact same morph as me,this type are very few and far between.
Back to these smaller Marbles,it seems there are more of these with strong patterns than the regular Marbles,it will be interesting to see if they also retain their patterns,there's enough of us to find out if they will or not,the exciting thing is i think we have safely established that there really is a smaller type of Marble motoro which can only be good for the hobby,however what we still don't know is what river system (tributary) are they found.
Here's Lee's pup he bought from me,he's a good size and his claspers are very well developed...he's on a glass bottom don't forget.
