Rare fish theory

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fugupuff;4406772; said:
but a specific quality or trait people are looking for. And
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that's the kicker right there :D

and thats why i mentioned when people think of 'widebar ST' what immediately comes to mind is one that looks like the chao phraya Pulcher. would have been interesting to see those dats that EC was trying to bring in. they didnt look like indos at all to me. but because they didnt look like the typical chao phraya Pulcher, people waived the indo flag. at first i did too, but then i started looking into it a little more.

as for those cambodian/vietnam Pulchers, i'm sure there's a market for them. sure, some skeptics will call them Indos. but for those that are really into dats, theyll know the difference right away. and im sure they'd jump on the opportunity to own what could be the last D. Pulcher we'll ever see again.
 
hmm didn't know barca was so rare until u just said so.... xD ( never studied channas cuz can't keep them here xD) ..... i guess i was very lucky to see one for sale in hong kong ^_^

as for the dats, all dats are cool! period :)

and Wes, i'm still loving the mosals from u : )
 
jcardona1;4406755; said:
nice post. this goes along with the thread that was deleted a few weeks back from a vendor on another site bring these in. in the end it fell through but i believe they really were Pulcher.

what bothers me though is that people say that Chao pulcher is the "true widebar" or "true ST". and for this same reason is why i hate common names. arent both of these still classified to this day as d. Pulcher? i dont see how one is the real-deal and one is not. sure, the pulcher from thailand may have some traits that are more desirable than those of cambodia/vietnam, but it's still the same species, am i right?

with the possible extinction of the Chao Phraya pulcher it will be pretty hard to come up with new evidence that would labels these fish as two different species.

and what makes this even more difficult is the public's opinion on what a 'widebar' really is. everybody has an image in their mind that a widebar/ST should look like the thailand Pulcher. and many would be quick to dismiss the Cambodian pulcher as just a 'nice 3-bar indo', and this isnt correct IMO. they are both Pulcher, and they are both 'widebars'. i think it's just a geographic variant like you say.

just like when you brought in the rio negro orinos. nobody stood up and said they were a different species of orino, even though they look different than the orinoco orinos with the diamond-shaped patterns. it's no different with these Pulchers ;)
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Actually, he just started another sale thread, and the pix attached was from that thread. If you pay attention to the 4th bar, counting from the nose to tail, it looks like a "7" That's IT character. I also attached a pix of a 3-bar IT, which was imported by Rich @ Infinite Aquatics back in 06 for comparision. Due to high demand of D. Pulcher, people start hand pick 3-bar Indo to sell as D. Pulcher

Dats.jpg
 
The easiest way to solve any IT or Pulcher debate is to examine a fish based on the taxonimical description. It IS the only way that a fish is described and identified. Physical characteristics, ray counts, length ratios etc... all of these are part of the description.

However, I've come up short while looking for this info. Surely some of you google hounds can find it (the long description)! Here is a little info that should be helpful when trying to determine if these are in fact D. pulcher (C. puldher)
Short description
Distinguishable by its regular color pattern consisting of 4 or 5 regular and broad bars on body; bar 1 from nape through opercle onto thoracic region and across ventral surface of the body; bar 2 from base of dorsal spines 2-5 to slightly in front of anal fin origin; bar 3 starts at base of dorsal spine 9 to base of dorsal ray 2, and ends at base of anal rays 2-6; bar 4 on posterior half of caudal peduncle (Ref. 27732).

This description doesn't say anything about the tail bars.


http://fishbase.org/Summary/speciesSummary.php?ID=50395&genusname=Datnioides&speciesname=pulcher


Now, compared to D. microlepis.
http://fishbase.org/Summary/speciesSummary.php?ID=14506&genusname=Datnioides&speciesname=microlepis
Short description
Has the deepest body of any species of Coius, 2.1-2.4 times in SL. Specimens from mainland Southeast Asia invariably with five full bars, specimens from Borneo with 6-7 bars, all usually continued across ventral surface of body. First bar extending uninterrupted and undiminished across opercle and onto thoracic region, and continued across ventral surface of body; a well defined black mark on ventral surface of body immediately anterior to base of pelvic fins (not present in other Coius). Partial bars almost invariably absent. Branched dorsal rays 14-18; branched anal rays 9-11, usually 10 (Ref. 10425).

The description gives a specific trait present on IT tigers that isn't on other species in the genus (bolded).
 
heres some pics of lower mekong dats that were imported some time ago... hope it confuses you more....:popcorn:;)

Datnoides Pulcher.png

Ybar.JPG

xb.JPG

widebar.JPG
 
OddBaller;4413077;4413077 said:
heres some pics of lower mekong dats that were imported some time ago... hope it confuses you more....:popcorn:;)
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interesting! i can see a few of those have the classic chao phraya tail pattern. what's your opinion of the ones posted by JL, the one's he's trying to bring in again. i think i saw you comment on one of the first threads...
 
Clay;4412646; said:
a well defined black mark on ventral surface of body immediately anterior to base of pelvic fins (not present in other Coius)
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ok im trying to make sense of this. this basically is talking a black mark on the bottom side of the fin, right before the pelvic fins. anybody have pictures of this? is this referring to the "necklace" or belt" in where the stripe wraps around the fish?
 
and back to the original subject... "RARE" is like a box of chocolates... first you only eat the ones you like... then you look around to see what everyone else is eating....
 
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