Redtail Catfish Help Requested (Picking Your Redtail)

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thebiggerthebetter said:
If you want to read about pond construction, I have a compilation of links you can find here in one of my threads: http://www.planetcatfish.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=33968&hilit=+blues

Another knee-jerk reaction: it may be better for you to consider living in tropical or sub-tropical climate on a well water when you are ready for your dream. Heating 9000 gal can break almost any bank, unless you are made of money. Otherwise, very serious attention will have to be paid to insulation. It can be done. Ted from Seattle (see my compilation) has a tropical 1800, 4000, and 8000 gal pond OUTSIDE but I am sure it is a great pain in the neck to keep it warm enough still.
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Thanks thebiggerthebetter, sorry I have not replied to this in a much quicker fashion.....at first I was not even sure you wanted a reply.....but there is something I wished to know more on. You said that you had a large compilation of links for constructing a pond, I checked out the link you posted, but it mainly deals with constructing windows for your tank (which actually may, or may not come in handy....I have not decided if I am gonna add an underground viewing station or not.....sounds rather expensive....but so is the entire project....so that is still a maybe).

About the heating.....I have planned to secure the room's temperature and try to make it more like the amazons itself. The tank.....which is going to be created more like an in-ground swimming pool (which I believe might be best if the filters clean by filtering runoff into them, dumping clean water back into the tank above....but there might be a more efficient way, with better currents solution available). The room will be insulated and designed more like a green house than a traditional aquarium....if the whole room is kept naturally hot, the water should find it easier to stay hot. Of course fresh air would require pumping in, and there would need to air conditioning.....just in case it gets too hot even for a day in the amazons. The tank will pretty much have no cover (other than the green house around it) like a pool, but I believe that sloping the sides instead of straight edges, will benefit both the fish and us (RTC's are strong, and I have heard of them jumping out of tanks before....sloped edges will prevent this).

I found your advice very helpful, and I plan to get the API Liquid Master test kit that you mentioned, and I will soon start testing the water, and how fast filtration works. Once its good, and everything is perfect in the tank, I will add a goldfish, starting down the path....and so on....


Oh, and have you ever heard of large filters that can clean even faster than in three weeks? The tank I am going be designing, will probably need much more effective filters than that.......but I believe those can probably just be custom ordered....I will check with some zoos and aquariums, see what filters they are using and such.

Thanks again for all the help thebiggerthebetter, and everyone else. I am very thankful that this community exists....Monster Fish Keepers is truly a really neat site with a great group of people in it. Thanks guys for all the support :) .
 
MR: You said that you had a large compilation of links for constructing a pond, I checked out the link you posted, but it mainly deals with constructing windows for your tank (which actually may, or may not come in handy....I have not decided if I am gonna add an underground viewing station or not.....sounds rather expensive....but so is the entire project....so that is still a maybe).
TBTB: Window is the most demanding aspect but there are plenty of other things to take care.

MR: About the heating.....I have planned to secure the room's temperature and try to make it more like the amazons itself. The tank.....which is going to be created more like an in-ground swimming pool
TBTB: That means the ground temperature will determine the water temp in your pool, not the air temp above it. Below 2', the ground is usually at a constant temp year round, e.g., ~45-50 F in NY and ~70-75 F in FL.

MR: (which I believe might be best if the filters clean by filtering runoff into them, dumping clean water back into the tank above....but there might be a more efficient way, with better currents solution available). The room will be insulated and designed more like a green house than a traditional aquarium....if the whole room is kept naturally hot, the water should find it easier to stay hot. Of course fresh air would require pumping in, and there would need to air conditioning.....just in case it gets too hot even for a day in the amazons. The tank will pretty much have no cover (other than the green house around it) like a pool, but I believe that sloping the sides instead of straight edges, will benefit both the fish and us (RTC's are strong, and I have heard of them jumping out of tanks before....sloped edges will prevent this).
TBTB: your own fish-keeping experience will help you in the first and foremost place develop and tweak your ideas.

MR: Oh, and have you ever heard of large filters that can clean even faster than in three weeks? The tank I am going be designing, will probably need much more effective filters than that.......but I believe those can probably just be custom ordered....I will check with some zoos and aquariums, see what filters they are using and such.
TBTB: We are on completely different pages. Once a properly sized bio-filter is established/cycled, which may take 3-6 weeks, the water leaving the filter will have zero ammonia and zero nitrate and the filter will provide a sufficient water turnover in a tank to keep the ammonia and nitrite at near zero (e.g., ~0.1 ppm) in the tank water too, which is the purpose of a filter.
 
Im going to try not to ramble too much here.. but i probably will. But personally i would suggest takeing on something more then a goldfish. imo an Oscar and a 75-125 would be a great start for your family. they make great wet pets and down the road would make a good addition to the family as well, so not only would it be a start but something our likely going to bond with as well and want to keep. Not going to lie fish are addictive pets and few stick to just one.

as a parent myself an Oscar imo is a great " pet" for kids and families, they do get 12" + and are attractive, easy to find and just challengeing enough to teach you alot about the hobby.

or set up a community tank if you would prefer something nice to look at, my point being go with something your going to want to take care of. RTCs are great, but there are many other fish fitting the " pet" description that are smaller and easier to maintain, they will teach you what youll need to be successful.

goldfish imo are not ideal first fish. a single goldfish needs 40+ gallons per fish, are disease prone, and ime genetically weak unless your paying top dollar. by keeping an Oscar or other tropical fish you are learning off the bat how to maintain another species from the same ecosystem.

as youve found here.. lots of subforums, and lots of knowledgable people. if you havent been digging threw the whole forum as much as possible i would suggest starting.
 
Well put too. I stand by my words, which implied some sort of logical progression, and I find this agreeable too... there is not a significant disagreement here. Pick your poison.
 
thebiggerthebetter said:
Mr: (which I believe might be best if the filters clean by filtering runoff into them, dumping clean water back into the tank above....but there might be a more efficient way, with better currents solution available).

MR: Oh, and have you ever heard of large filters that can clean even faster than in three weeks? The tank I am going be designing, will probably need much more effective filters than that.......but I believe those can probably just be custom ordered....I will check with some zoos and aquariums, see what filters they are using and such.
TBTB: We are on completely different pages. Once a properly sized bio-filter is established/cycled, which may take 3-6 weeks, the water leaving the filter will have zero ammonia and zero nitrate and the filter will provide a sufficient water turnover in a tank to keep the ammonia and nitrite at near zero (e.g., ~0.1 ppm) in the tank water too, which is the purpose of a filter.
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Sorry for the misunderstanding thebiggerthebetter, I was trying to describe a placement for filters in a 9000 gallon tank, that quite honestly seems to be a stupid idea. I wished to place the filters below the tank, sucking and filtering water from the bottom of the tank......but this would create powerful currents....and I was looking for a better solution.....Maybe runoff holes in the sloped edges leading to the filters on the sides would work better. That's why I asked about massive filters, preparing for the future......I don't think a small or medium will even suffice for a tank this size. I am sorry I wrote the description of this plan to be so confusing......I just did not wish for it to sound as ridiculous as it truly is. Thank you for the tips and advice thebiggerthebetter :) .


And for you MonsterMinis, thanks for the tips...your idea does sound good.You have a point, Goldfish are not the most durable intelligent or healthy fish on the planet, and they would not prepare me for an Amazonian climate. But are you sure a person with almost no fish care experience yet can handle an Oscar right off the bat? If they really are that easy to take care of, I will think about getting one and following this route....after I test out the tank, and get a proper filter running, and understand the Nitrogen Cycle completely (which you all say comes with experience, so experience is what I will need).

Thanks for everything guys :) (Don't take this as being sexist....I am far from sexist, and would not like to be misunderstood, thanks).
 
No problem. If you think you understand what bio-filter does and how it does it, it'd be only natural to start wondering about efficiencies of various bio-filter designs and start comparing them. If not, then you could be putting a buggy in front of a horse.

Your currents would be only as powerful as your pump is (in gallons per hour). I don't think placement of the filter (below, above, what not) plays much of a role in this.

Hands down, the most energy efficient way to pull water through a filter is with an air pump (rising air in a pipe creates suction). It has its pros and cons.

It is not the tank size that determines the filter size, but the bio-load. Yours will be quite light (relatively speaking) - one say 50 lb fish in 9000 gal. I'd say a surface of 2000 nylon-mesh pot scrubbies or an equivalent thereof would be adequate. In my 4000 gal, I have had about 300-400 lbs of fish (~100 fish) and the available surface was roughly equivalent to 10,000 scrubbies.
 
thebiggerthebetter said:
It is not the tank size that determines the filter size, but the bio-load. Yours will be quite light (relatively speaking) - one say 50 lb fish in 9000 gal. I'd say a surface of 2000 nylon-mesh pot scrubbies or an equivalent thereof would be adequate. In my 4000 gal, I have had about 300-400 lbs of fish (~100 fish) and the available surface was roughly equivalent to 10,000 scrubbies.
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Thanks thebiggerthebetter, that really helps clear things up. How fascinating.....I figured this would require an incredibly large number of filters. So if I were to increase the bio-load to say, 300 lbs....the water would need more filters. I am not saying I want to increase the number of fish in the tank, but I do plan to actually have more life in that water than just one Redtail Catfish (only the RTC is permanent though). I plan to hand feed my catfish, and that would definitely increase bio-load because I would want to be in the water with the fish to do so. I already checked this out before I got on MonsterfishKeepers, turns out that RTC's can handle being around people without getting diseases or damaging health so long as anyone in the water is well cleaned with no deodorants, perfumes, soaps residues, or any other chemicals remaining on their bodies. This is very important.....and means that anyone visiting the fish MUST clean vigorously before entering the water. But I also want filters to keep the water clean from the fishes waste as well. My plans are large, they will cost alot......but in the end they will be worth it. I am very certain of this.

There is one thing I did not quite understand out of your comment....you mentioned quite a few uses of 'Nylon-Mesh Pot Scrubbies', it almost seems as if they are a unit of filtration....but I found little to no reference online for such a term being used to describe filtration.....maybe I was looking it up wrong. I was hoping you could help clear that up for me, thanks.


PS:

This is for MonsterMinis,
MonsterMinis, you suggested for me to, after fully understanding the filter and Nitrogen Cycle, and after getting a tank up and running of my own, that I should get an Oscar and raise it as my training. You brought up several excellent points, but I have one question: do you honestly think that a beginning fish owner can handle and take good care of an Oscar? If you do think I can, then I will go with your plan......if not then I will follow thebiggerthebetter's more chronological plan. I do like both of your suggestions, and I do not wish this to become a popularity contest, but I do want to go with the best alternative. Thanks again everybody, you guys and gals are awesome :) .
 
Honestly Oscars are Hardy as they come. So are redtails. I have 3...

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that's a huge tank for one rtc, why only one and not a few different ones along with the rtc?
 
If i didn't think a new dedicated fish keeper could handle an oscar I deffinately would not reccomend it. IN the end i don't think it's at all about whos right or wrong, but again what works best for you. from my own experiances ( ive worked in the industry on and off for the past 15 yrs no, and been keeping since my dad got me my first tank at like 7.) if you start with a fish you "Like" your going to take care of it learn ect.. and enjoy it. I would also suggest going ot your local lfs and seeing what they have available... do some more research on other species. Oscars and other CA/SA cichlids are large enough, colorful enough, common enough, and hardy enough generally to make great pets. and teach you the basics of what you'll need to know when goign to a larger enclosure. most large species are hardy fish.. the challenge is in the tank/filtration hardware ect... Costly mistakes of those natures not only end up in dead fish but wasted money.

Pot scrubbies are just cheap media to allow for beneficial bacteria growth. I use them in my sump, i can buy 6 scrubbies for 1$... or spend 4-5x that on "special" media... it is just a very cost effective way of creating surface area for bacterial growth in your filtration set-up. personally i'm a fan of useing many different medias for optimal bacterial colonization.
 
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