Replace bio wheels with pot scrubbies??

[crazy clowntang]

I would leave the bio wheels because the Aerobic bacteria thrives on the wheels. If you don't have the wheel then all your aerobic bacteria will live in the substrate and the filter, which would depleat the Oxygen source from the water and thus maybe (depending on stock) deprive fish of oxygen. Aerobic bacteria needs Oxygen to live and ANaerobic bacteria does not. Aerobic bacteria processes ammonia and nitrites and ANaerobic bacteria converts nitrates to nitrogen gas which then escapes the tank via the water surface. The bio wheel does have (IMO) good surface area for bacteria BUT the constant exposure to air and water allows the Aerobic bacteria to perform at its best because it has more oxygen to thrive. The bio wheel is the main reason why I like the emp. 400 over filters like the Aquaclear. The aquaclear is a great filter but the emp. 400 has the wet/dry aspect with the bio wheels. So the moral of the story, If you want better water quality leave the bio wheels. That is my two cents

 

[JoelR]

FINALLY! That's 100% correct. Wet/dry filtration is NOT about surface area. It's about exposure to oxygen.

That's not 100% correct! Come on,,, It's a combination of surface area and oxygen exposure. You can have a bottle of pure 02 pumping but if there is no surface area, what good would it do? Absolutly nothing without somewhere for the bacteria to grow. This is a case of what came first, the chicken or the egg. LOL

 

[JoelR]

Okay folks, before any feathers start ruffling, let's look back at the point of the tread... It was not to say that scrubbies are better than the wheel. It was a simple question to which had better surface area.
If you look back, my bio wheels are in my trickle tower seeding. I did not replace them.

 

[crazy clowntang]

Okay folks, before any feathers start ruffling, let's look back at the point of the tread... It was not to say that scrubbies are better than the wheel. It was a simple question to which had better surface area.
If you look back, my bio wheels are in my trickle tower seeding. I did not replace them.

I just made my case, if I were to choose pot scrubbies or a bio wheel in this application I would definetly leave the bio wheels. The way you are using the PS's really does not make sense unless they PS's were fully submerged or water were trickeling through it. As far as surface area I think I have to agree that PS's offer more surface area than bio wheels, but the purpose of a bio wheel is not surface area, it is the exposure to air. A bio wheel may not have a lot of surface area but the endless supply of oxygen contact with the bio wheel makes it a superior filter, if you can't have a sump with a wet/dry tower full of PS's I did not see (read) that you had a trickle tower.

BTW, if you have a trickle tower you must have a sump. Why no eliminate the HOB filter and stuff the tower with PS's and maybe add a refugium with plants? That would be all you would need.

 

[JoelR]

I just made my case, if I were to choose pot scrubbies or a bio wheel in this application I would definetly leave the bio wheels. The way you are using the PS's really does not make sense unless they PS's were fully submerged or water were trickeling through it. As far as surface area I think I have to agree that PS's offer more surface area than bio wheels, but the purpose of a bio wheel is not surface area, it is the exposure to air. A bio wheel may not have a lot of surface area but the endless supply of oxygen contact with the bio wheel makes it a superior filter, if you can't have a sump with a wet/dry tower full of PS's I did not see (read) that you had a trickle tower.

BTW, if you have a trickle tower you must have a sump. Why no eliminate the HOB filter and stuff the tower with PS's and maybe add a refugium with plants? That would be all you would need.

The water does trickle and flow through the PS's via, the regular filter flow and the spray bar. More so via spray bar (the way Emp's are designed), just like it would through a drip plate in a trickle filter only it's going down at a 45 deg. angle instead of straight down.

My trickle tower is on an established tank. The Emp. is on a new 30 I set up. I took the PS's out of the trickle and put the bio wheels in the trickle. I get a double affect. The bio wheels get seeded from the established tank, and the new tank gets seeded from the PS's from the established tank. This is all temporary. I am going to put the bio wheels back in the emp. after they've been in tower for a while, and the scrubbies will go back in the tower.

When I put the scrubbies in the Emp. is when I wondered which would work better. It seems there isn't much info as far as actual useable surface area on the bio wheels.
The PS's do get O2 just like they would in a trickle so it's just a matter of which would work best in the situation. More surface area (that does get o2 but even if they (PS's) actually have more surface area???). Or less surface area (if they (the bio wheels) do even have less?????) but with more o2????
It's getting confusing. LOL

 

[crazy clowntang]

I have an emp. 400 and like your spray bar there are about 4-5 holes that stream the water out in one direction. The bio wheel is designed so that when the water from the spray bar falls on the wheel, the water spreads out through the fins of the wheel. When the water falls on the PS's the water basically follows its path and does not spread through out the PS's. In this case I think that the bio wheel works best, but if you could get the water to spray over the PS's and not stream through them, I think that it would work better beause you would have more coverage on the PS's. Don't get me wrong I think that the PS's have way more surface area but in this case it seems like your are not maximizing the PS's.

 

[EllieGreene]

Hi.

Sorry for thread-stealing here. In "big" aquaculture and water treatment Rotating Biological Contactors (a very big biowheel) are run on shafts that are just above the surface of the water and spin a 3-4 rpm.

Picture

An ambitious DIY'er could make a floating RBC at aquarium scales and make practically no sound at all.

 

[tcarswell]

I like bio wheels. Id stick with them. Everyone already made any point I was gonna try to get through

 

[JoelR]

Hi.

Sorry for thread-stealing here. In "big" aquaculture and water treatment Rotating Biological Contactors (a very big biowheel) are run on shafts that are just above the surface of the water and spin a 3-4 rpm.

Picture

An ambitious DIY'er could make a floating RBC at aquarium scales and make practically no sound at all.

That would be a Tide Pool filter. Same concept.

 

[JoelR]

I have an emp. 400 and like your spray bar there are about 4-5 holes that stream the water out in one direction. The bio wheel is designed so that when the water from the spray bar falls on the wheel, the water spreads out through the fins of the wheel. When the water falls on the PS's the water basically follows its path and does not spread through out the PS's. In this case I think that the bio wheel works best, but if you could get the water to spray over the PS's and not stream through them, I think that it would work better beause you would have more coverage on the PS's. Don't get me wrong I think that the PS's have way more surface area but in this case it seems like your are not maximizing the PS's.

I think your right..