Right or wrong

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T1KARMANN

T1KARMANN

Giant Snakehead
MFK Member
Sep 19, 2005
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London UK
I have notice a lot of breeders will only sell pairs of pups male and female

I under stand most people like trios of rays 2 females 1 male

I also understand most breeders don't want to be stuck with lots of males

I would just like to know what people's thoughts on this was as by forcing people to buy a male and female (brother and sister) what impact this will have in the future if lots of people are breeding brother and sister

It can't be good if we continue to inter breed rays in this way


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Not good at all in my view, but what else can you do?
Like you said, no one wants to be left with lots of males. Hopefully people buying brothers and sisters already have other rays so they can mix up the gene pool and not allow brothers and sisters to mate. But i doubt if this will always be the case.
 
I think it's wrong and I won't do it.
If a pair is worth £700 I'll sell the female for £500 and the male for £200 for example or what ever figure is suitable for the specifics. I think this is better as those who want females can buy what they want to expand their collection, new hobbyists can enter the ray world at a cheaper price picking up a male which will stay smaller and usually looks nicer anyway.


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no right or wrong
but I always tell from the beginning,these are same batch sibling
if possible,exchange away either one when they are bigger if breeding is on the card
 
Got to agree don't think it's right, if they sold the males at a real market value then they won't be stuck with them and as you say to keep inbreeding between related rays is not a good thing long term. Also seen sum stupidly high prices for single females in UK of late


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I know for a fact some breeders in Europe will only sell pairs no matter what

Could this also be why a lot of captive bred rays look better than wild caught because they have inter bred
I think inter breeding is a lot more common than we think and many breeders won't even admit to it


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T1KARMANN said:
I know for a fact some breeders in Europe will only sell pairs no matter what

Could this also be why a lot of captive bred rays look better than wild caught because they have inter bred
I think inter breeding is a lot more common than we think and many breeders won't even admit to it


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I think you are certainly correct in saying this. One thing that has to be remembered is that once someone establishes a good relationship with a breeder they will stick with only buying from that breeder.

I am certainly guilty of this. I have established good relationships with people I have come to trust and this I will be loyal to those people because I don't have to worry about getting burned.

I recently just got a pair of rays from a breeder however I made sure that I got an unrelated pair. I know inbreeding is an issue so I try my best to stick with just buying unrelated or first generation related pairs (only the pups are siblings and the parents have no relationship).

I think a solution to this problem would be to drop the market on males a lot. In my opinion females hold more value then a male does so why sell a male and a female at the same price? I have noticed breeders especially who breed higher end bds and whatnot sell both males and females for the same price. The fix for this problem is so easy in my opinion. Simply hold more value on a female over a male so like said before is a pair is $2000 the female would be valued at $1500 and the male at $500 this would cure the issue of a male over abundance because people would be able to buy better rays for cheaper! There would be no issues with over breeding and killing the market because you can stick as many males in a tank that you want but no babies are going to be popping out hahaha. So the people who want to breed are going to have to buy females. The price of the pair doesn't increase just the values are shifted.

If people are true hobbyist they aren't concerned with making as much money as possible; no they are concerned with making sure as many people get to enjoy the hobby as they do. I have a select group of friends I stick with in the hobby and I am proud to say we stick by this motto. If we have to sell a ray cheaper just so someone gets to enjoy the hobby then ok gladly? I for one have had help on prices and I'm not ashamed of that? I am a 19 year old poor college kid who can't afford to shell out a ton of money for a ray but breeders who I now can call my friends don't feel the need to make as much money as they can off me because they see that I enjoy what I do and I am very grateful for the breaks I have gotten on prices or I would have never been able to be doing what I love? I don't try to get super expensive rays to begin with though. The point still holds true though in my opinion everyone deserves the ability to enjoy stingrays? If we are all concerned with absolutely making as much money as we can off of our rays then what are we? We aren't hobbyists at all we are business people? Some people want to own a bd sure but could never afford a $1200 male or female. So cut prices on a male and transfer that value to the females. It will allow people who want to breed to still spend the same amount of total money to have a pair of bds but the person who just wants a black ray with white soots in a cool circular pattern the opportunity to have it!

This would solve and prevents many issues: it solves the issue of people not being able to afford a cool ray, it solves the issue of breeders only being left with males, and it prevents the market from being flooded with new rays coming from everyone breeding, and it also doesn't kill the market by just straight up lowering the cost of everything so more people can enjoy.

Sure breeding helps pay for a hobbyists expenses and that is why I believe the market shouldn't be straight up lowered but does it need to be more then that? Does it need to be more then just a way for people to help pay for their running expenses? If you want to make ray breeding a business start playing with the $30,000-60,000 rays. If you want to keep rays as a hobby then how could you.not want to see others enjoying the hobby that you love so much?


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A group of males doesn't work as adults they maybe fine as pups but in most cases male will fight once they come mature

Males already have a selling points they stay smaller and normally look better than females

I feel by putting female prices sky high it holds people back from buying a extra female

It's a problem that will always happen but if breeders are more than willing to sell females on their own it gives people the option to shop around

People will need males so just because you don't sell them as a pair another buyer still always need a male

£500 to £1500 is crazy


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T1KARMANN said:
A group of males doesn't work as adults they maybe fine as pups but in most cases male will fight once they come mature

Males already have a selling points they stay smaller and normally look better than females

I feel by putting female prices sky high it holds people back from buying a extra female

It's a problem that will always happen but if breeders are more than willing to sell females on their own it gives people the option to shop around

People will need males so just because you don't sell them as a pair another buyer still always need a male

£500 to £1500 is crazy


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The thing is though that there are always males everywhere it seems. I prefer females over males because it allows me to breed in the future. The issue of buying single females is a good point though. I am not sure but like you said this is another issue that can't be fixed just like trying to chip rays. This is the natural eb and flow of the market.


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