Right or wrong

[DIDYSIS]

I've have a good amount of batches over here and I'll share my experience.

I have two pairs of the mantillas males and females,

First batch of pups from both all of the males sold really fast and a couple females, a couple stayed behind.
I wanted to keep one or two to grow out a little just to see patterns and I didn't post them. Then the next batch was born and everyone wanted females like crazy. I didnt even have them posted and they were all sold. Some people buying multiple females. So then I only had males left and I had a bunch of them. I think around 6-7 males. Shortly after I had people who wanted pairs but I was out of females and unable to help those with future breeding in mind.

So this last group I had multiple people reach out to me wanting females only again and I listed them as only pairs just to help those that wanted pairs and it worked well. I sold mostly pairs and managed to get the many extra males down in numbers.

Now I am left with 1 males and 2 females. So I need to post those and see what will come of them.

I understand the brother sister deal but also at the same time if someone has a pair of amazing rays and they breed amazing pups and you want a pair I don't think it's going to stop you. Especially if they are one of a kind rays. Line breeding for patterns and certain qualities has to be done some how. I know for myself if someone really wants different parent pups I try to do that as I have a few breeders. For others it's not that easy because they only have and rend pair. But also if they say I want that one and that one from your batch I'm not going to stop them and say they are brother and sister and not ship them out they are buying because they look good and want those rays. Again I don't think breeding a brother and sister together is that bad but that's just my opinion.


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[T1KARMANN]

The thing is though that there are always males everywhere it seems. I prefer females over males because it allows me to breed in the future. The issue of buying single females is a good point though. I am not sure but like you said this is another issue that can't be fixed just like trying to chip rays. This is the natural eb and flow of the market.


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Have you ever thought the reason you see so many males for sale is because people are forced into buying a male they don't need


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[T1KARMANN]

I've have a good amount of batches over here and I'll share my experience.

I have two pairs of the mantillas males and females,

First batch of pups from both all of the males sold really fast and a couple females, a couple stayed behind.
I wanted to keep one or two to grow out a little just to see patterns and I didn't post them. Then the next batch was born and everyone wanted females like crazy. I didnt even have them posted and they were all sold. Some people buying multiple females. So then I only had males left and I had a bunch of them. I think around 6-7 males. Shortly after I had people who wanted pairs but I was out of females and unable to help those with future breeding in mind.

So this last group I had multiple people reach out to me wanting females only again and I listed them as only pairs just to help those that wanted pairs and it worked well. I sold mostly pairs and managed to get the many extra males down in numbers.

Now I am left with 1 males and 2 females. So I need to post those and see what will come of them.

I understand the brother sister deal but also at the same time if someone has a pair of amazing rays and they breed amazing pups and you want a pair I don't think it's going to stop you. Especially if they are one of a kind rays. Line breeding for patterns and certain qualities has to be done some how. I know for myself if someone really wants different parent pups I try to do that as I have a few breeders. For others it's not that easy because they only have and rend pair. But also if they say I want that one and that one from your batch I'm not going to stop them and say they are brother and sister and not ship them out they are buying because they look good and want those rays. Again I don't think breeding a brother and sister together is that bad but that's just my opinion.


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If we go back to breeding dogs who have far more experience with the effects of breeding brother and sister than us this kind of breeding is not allowed by the AKC or the KC in the UK there must be a reason for this and they would allow it if it was a good thing for the breed or the health of the dog

If breeders refuse to sell pairs to one person it would cut down this kind of inter breeding which is surely a good thing
This would also help breeders to sell both male and female
As you will have someone looking for the opposite to which they have just purchased from another breeder


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[Toohard]

I don't agree with the neccesity of buying a pair. I like to be able to choose male or female seperatly.

I mix it up the best i can. My make and female are from two different vendors. My second female will come from a third source.


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[Keister]

Have you ever thought the reason you see so many males for sale is because people are forced into buying a male they don't need


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No I'm not speaking about the single male here and there from a random person. It just seems like at least in the US the males are always the last rays to sell. I seem to see more males on adds then females.



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[Keister]

If we go back to breeding dogs who have far more experience with the effects of breeding brother and sister than us this kind of breeding is not allowed by the AKC or the KC in the UK there must be a reason for this and they would allow it if it was a good thing for the breed or the health of the dog

If breeders refuse to sell pairs to one person it would cut down this kind of inter breeding which is surely a good thing
This would also help breeders to sell both male and female
As you will have someone looking for the opposite to which they have just purchased from another breeder


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Sorry for the double post but the question then this question must be raised: what about the harder to find rays? Like let's say hystrix spot is the only person I know of actively breeding hystrix so to try to buy from two separate sources may simply be impossible unless you wait in hopes that someone sells one of their own that they have just had. Then it has to be taken into account that you aren't the only person out there who is going to want this single ray and that's if it is even the correct sex. The akc is far larger then the ray hobby so there are far more breeders which allows for this gene mixing. Just something to think about further. Some of the rays just aren't available from more then one person which sucks but I mean is is what it is I guess...


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[DIDYSIS]

Agree that the rare stuff or more uncommon is not available in large numbers. Albino pearls? Boesemani? I don't think anyone would care if they were brother or sister, Question is If you (T1 or anyone else) were given a good chance to buy some or say your dream ray would them being brother and sister really stop you from doing so? I know it would not stop me at all.

Sorry for the double post but the question then this question must be raised: what about the harder to find rays? Like let's say hystrix spot is the only person I know of actively breeding hystrix so to try to buy from two separate sources may simply be impossible unless you wait in hopes that someone sells one of their own that they have just had. Then it has to be taken into account that you aren't the only person out there who is going to want this single ray and that's if it is even the correct sex. The akc is far larger then the ray hobby so there are far more breeders which allows for this gene mixing. Just something to think about further. Some of the rays just aren't available from more then one person which sucks but I mean is is what it is I guess...


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[ShadowStryder]

I remember back when I got into rays breeders would not sell males and females together from the same litters or parents. Now they dont care and most people dont care when purchasing. I prefer not to. Its the biggest reason I didnt get a female BD from the same source as my male.

 

[doyboy]

Agree that the rare stuff or more uncommon is not available in large numbers. Albino pearls? Boesemani? I don't think anyone would care if they were brother or sister, Question is If you (T1 or anyone else) were given a good chance to buy some or say your dream ray would them being brother and sister really stop you from doing so? I know it would not stop me at all.






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It wouldn't and didn't stop me when buying my pearls becoz the quality of pearls I was looking for was only available from one breeder (Richard aka aquaman), I don't like having to breed brother and sister but good quality pearls in UK r hard to come by and some times you have to just go with it to get the end result u like.
If you was able to trace back the family tree of pure bread rays in UK I don't think there wouldn't be to many that are not related in some way due to the fact up until the last few years not many people breed rays so the breeding stock pile was low.

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[T1KARMANN]

No I'm not speaking about the single male here and there from a random person. It just seems like at least in the US the males are always the last rays to sell. I seem to see more males on adds then females.



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We probably see more males for sale for two reason
1. People don't want to sell females if a larger female come up for sale the seller wouldn't need to advertise it as it would be sold to a friend
2. A lot of people try 2 males in a group but they may fight when they are both mature I have had for one have had to sell 4 males for this reason




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