Seachem Matrix?

[reptileguy2727]

With 50 liters of biomedia and only 1/4 in the water that is still enough to create an ideal environment for a significant amount of anaerobic bacteria.

Care to expand on what other things may cause nitrate to drop and stay that low that fast?

Bacteria grow very fast, so I see no reason why it can't be anaerobic bacteria doing exactly what they do.

 

[rhodes_96]

I have three comments:
1 - Nitrate reducing bacteria (anaerobic) requires an extremely low oxygen environment. The 75% of your Matrix that is above the water line in you sump, is very unlikely to be cultivating anaerobic bacteria.
2 - Anaerobic bacteria takes weeks (more like months) to develop into a robust and healthy culture. Your observation of lower nitrate after one to two weeks must be due to some other factor.
3 - Matrix fine pores will clog with silt over time, rendering it less effective.

1 - Seachem claim that matrix's macropores are ideally sized for the support of nitrifying and denitrifying bacteria. This may have something to do with. I agree normally low oxygen environment helps promote anaerobic bateria, and the there is plenty of rich water trickling through the matrix.

2 - The media used has been active on another tank for months, I just switched hoses from one sump to another. Important to note the tank which the test was done on had between 0-5ppm of nitrate (essentially non to begin with.) At a starting nitrate level say for example around 20-40ppm, results could be very different. The previous filter had a combination matrix, bioballs and japanese mat, and water changes done once per week around 30%.

3 - Agree, I am using pond matrix which is pre filtered with 50 micron poly sheeting.

 

[vfc]

2 - The media used has been active on another tank for months, I just switched hoses from one sump to another. Important to note the tank which the test was done on had between 0-5ppm of nitrate (essentially non to begin with.) At a starting nitrate level say for example around 20-40ppm, results could be very different. The previous filter had a combination matrix, bioballs and japanese mat, and water changes done once per week around 30%.

3 - Agree, I am using pond matrix which is pre filtered with 50 micron poly sheeting.

2 - Fair enough but then what about the tank that was previously hooked to the sump with all the Matrix? Was that tank also running at near zero nitrates?

3 - So its Pond Matrix now, not the regular stuff you buy in Pet Smart and you happen to have a 50 micron poly sheeting. The <50 micron silt will also clog the Matrix. I had Matrix, CellPore, and a couple other hard-porous bio medias. I discovered over time they clog up, so I switched to sponges.

Are you sure you are not making this up as you go...lol.

All joking aside, you need a better test environment and procedures to back up any claim that Matrix (excuse me; Pond Matrix) really reduces nitrates in any significant manner.

You could be responsible for a bunch of less informed people reading this thread and wasting their money on a product that has no impact in the average fish tank.

 

[reptileguy2727]

The only issue here is whether or not the product actually allows for denitrification. Even if it does not at all it is still a VERY good biomedia and worth the money (and cheaper than Fluval and Eheim's biomedias).

I don't think there is any difference in the actual product between Matrix and Pond Matrix. The Pond Matrix simply comes in larger containers and runs a littler cheaper per volume/weight.

I do agree that there could be more scientific data available for this (ideally a study done by an independent lab for Seachem) but I have seen this type of data from many people supporting that in their tanks it at least seemed to help improve the nitrate concentration.

 

[DMD123]

I have 2L of Matrix in one of my two canisters on my 120g and it seems to work just like any other bio media I have used. Matrix appears to me to be just a lava rock or pumice type stone in nature. I did not notice any major changes to my water parameters since using this product. After all these are not "magic rocks", you still have to continue your regular maintenance routine. I just was not that impressed, the ceramic rings that matrix replaced seemed to work just as well for me.

 

[vfc]

I do agree that there could be more scientific data available for this (ideally a study done by an independent lab for Seachem) but I have seen this type of data from many people supporting that in their tanks it at least seemed to help improve the nitrate concentration.

Yeah a lot of people so far have responded with comments like: "love it", "works great", etc. All meaningless endorsements without any scientific evidence.

If you study consumerism, you will find that most people will rationalize (sometimes illogically) a purchase to eliminate any possible cognitive dissonance.

 

[ar0wan]

I freaking love cognitive dissonance.
Besides I was using it BEFORE IT WAS COOL.

 

[Just Toby]

I do not understand how it could reduce nitrates in anything other than the short term unless it has sulphur or a carbon based nutrient in there, the anaerobic bacteria need next to no oxygen and a carbon food source to turn the no3 to nitrogen gas, this is why we feed a nitrate reactor with vodka or have sulphur beads.

I am not saying it cannot work but need to understand how?...

 

[ar0wan]

A fantastic arguement.

All I know is that I need bio media to process Nitrites.
It does the trick, in relatively low volume.
It's cheap.
It's made by Seachem (fanboi).
There are rumors that it reduces Nitrates.
It's GREAT as a conversation piece.

A++++++++++++++++++++ WOULD RECOMMEND

 

[Danger_Chicken]

Yes, most ammonia does come from the fish directly, but as solid debris is broken down it too releases ammonia. Normally this is not an issue, but in tanks with a lot of waste in the filters you can get measurable drops in nitrate after a cleaning. I have seen it in my own tanks when I neglect the filters too long.

The FX5 has on around 6 litres of media capaicty. This is enough on a 180 for ammonia/nitrite removal, but for nitrates I think you will need more.

Seachem recommends 1L of matrix per 100g of water. The amount of media wont make a difference in nitrate reduction as described above. The BB use the same media just different portions of it, e.g. the bb that reduces ammonia will live on or close to the surface where there is lots of oxygen. The denitrifying bb will live deep in the the matrix where the oxygen has been depleted.

The only issue here is whether or not the product actually allows for denitrification. Even if it does not at all it is still a VERY good biomedia and worth the money (and cheaper than Fluval and Eheim's biomedias).

I don't think there is any difference in the actual product between Matrix and Pond Matrix. The Pond Matrix simply comes in larger containers and runs a littler cheaper per volume/weight.

Pond matrix is larger chunks. Seachem recommends using it in sumps becuase of the larger pieces. They also state matrix is best used in a closed system like a canister as there is less oxygen.

I first used matrix in a sulfer denitrator and the results were amazing. A test tank with 100pm nitrates reduce to 0 overnight (after a week of seeding); of course that was in a zero oxygen environment. I use it as media in my FX5's now but I can't say if it's helping with nitrates. The tank stays under 20ppm with a high bioload, but there some plants in the tank and also a drip system; albeit only 12g a day on a 180g. Too many factors to say for sure, but I like to believe it's helping.