Shark license
- Thread starter blackghostknife
- Start date
I no longer agree with the shark license idea I would like to start a group that educates people about sharks to stop complete idiots from making impulse buys. I already go to Pets Marts and stop morons from making impulse buys on freshwater fish. Maybe we should do the same for these animals.
Okay - first off those who are think that a license or permit should be need to keep big sharks - here's a few facts to consider about how hard it is even with these permits or license.
For example - lets take a young Lemon Shark.
18' ft diameter pool (minimum for a juvenile Lemon) - about $2,000-2,500
EDPM 45 mil fish safe liner - about $500
Marine salt for 7,600 gallons - about $1,200
Filtration - at least $10,000-15,000
Sand (~1,000 lbs) - about $800
Live Rock (~1,000 lbs) - about $3,000
So it at least 17-23K before adding the shark. And it would likely be more - if you add things such as heaters, chillers, and other equipment. Also a juvenile lemon shark will be at least $1,000(USD). Juvenile Bull sharks usually at least $6,000(USD). And then on top of all that - you have to add food, vitamin & mineral supplements and basic meds needed to maintain the shark.
So basically keeping a requiem shark (i.e BTR, WTR, Bull, Lemon or similar shark) is going to be fairly expensive from the very beginning. Even smaller requiems like Sharpnose or Bonnetheads really need a pool that at least 18' in diameter as juveniles. So no requiem shark in cheap, to keep or maintain. And keep in mind these are just to keep a juvenile Requiem shark in for a few years. To maintain a requiem shark for life ultimately requires a swimming pool sized pond or lagoon that - ranges from about 15,000 gallons (Bonnethead & Sharpnose) - nearly 100,000 gallons (ie Bull Shark)
By comparison - most juvenile benthic species can spend at least the first 2 years -possible for the shark's entire life (depending on the species) in a 1,000 gallon pond.
Pond - 10' in diameter - about $1,000
EDPM 45 mil fish safe liner - about $200
Marine salt for 1,200 gallons - about $200
Filtration - at least $3,500-5,000
Sand (~300 lbs) - about $240
Live Rock (~300 lbs) - about $900
So it costs about $6,000-$7,500 to set for a good sized pond for benthic sharks. And most of the popular benthic sharks can be found for under $500 - some for even less than $100.
But at the get go - Benthic sharks are about 3 times less expensive than a requiem to set up for.
For example - lets take a young Lemon Shark.
18' ft diameter pool (minimum for a juvenile Lemon) - about $2,000-2,500
EDPM 45 mil fish safe liner - about $500
Marine salt for 7,600 gallons - about $1,200
Filtration - at least $10,000-15,000
Sand (~1,000 lbs) - about $800
Live Rock (~1,000 lbs) - about $3,000
So it at least 17-23K before adding the shark. And it would likely be more - if you add things such as heaters, chillers, and other equipment. Also a juvenile lemon shark will be at least $1,000(USD). Juvenile Bull sharks usually at least $6,000(USD). And then on top of all that - you have to add food, vitamin & mineral supplements and basic meds needed to maintain the shark.
So basically keeping a requiem shark (i.e BTR, WTR, Bull, Lemon or similar shark) is going to be fairly expensive from the very beginning. Even smaller requiems like Sharpnose or Bonnetheads really need a pool that at least 18' in diameter as juveniles. So no requiem shark in cheap, to keep or maintain. And keep in mind these are just to keep a juvenile Requiem shark in for a few years. To maintain a requiem shark for life ultimately requires a swimming pool sized pond or lagoon that - ranges from about 15,000 gallons (Bonnethead & Sharpnose) - nearly 100,000 gallons (ie Bull Shark)
By comparison - most juvenile benthic species can spend at least the first 2 years -possible for the shark's entire life (depending on the species) in a 1,000 gallon pond.
Pond - 10' in diameter - about $1,000
EDPM 45 mil fish safe liner - about $200
Marine salt for 1,200 gallons - about $200
Filtration - at least $3,500-5,000
Sand (~300 lbs) - about $240
Live Rock (~300 lbs) - about $900
So it costs about $6,000-$7,500 to set for a good sized pond for benthic sharks. And most of the popular benthic sharks can be found for under $500 - some for even less than $100.
But at the get go - Benthic sharks are about 3 times less expensive than a requiem to set up for.
I think to get any animals, you should require a permit obtained by passing a general care test. For example: Fish test, rodent test, dog test, cat test and bird test.
Unfortunately, for every shark keeper who keeps a shark in a tank that will severely stunt it's growth, there are thousands of casual hobbyists that will do the exact same thing to cheaper fish.
In about 5 minutes of online research, I would learn more about tropical fish care than most hobbyists will ever learn. Same applies to just about any animal, except for maybe dogs and cats.
Unfortunately, for every shark keeper who keeps a shark in a tank that will severely stunt it's growth, there are thousands of casual hobbyists that will do the exact same thing to cheaper fish.
In about 5 minutes of online research, I would learn more about tropical fish care than most hobbyists will ever learn. Same applies to just about any animal, except for maybe dogs and cats.
If anything you should have a permit to keep comets & bettas, heh. But somewhat seriously, seeing those things cramped up in 5 gallon tanks and cups and pisses me off.
Okay - I'm going to let Zoodiver give a full explaination of this - as he can do a better job at it. But basically keeping sharks in a tank that is too small doesn't stunt their growth. Improper feeding and improper nutrition - is what stunts their growth. If it were just a case of the tank size stunting their growth - then explain to me how a 3 ft adult long Brown Banded Bamboo (with correct body portions & perfectly healthy) could be kept in a 300 gallon, or a 4ft long Nurse Shark could be kept in a 600 gallon tank.
Sure - for that matter, why not make everyone take & pass a basic child care test before they are allowed to give have to a child. I say this because - to many people who keep pet animals, their pets are like children to them.
Also there are hundreds of Sharks in public aquariums around the world - that are the same exact size as their wild counterparts, if not slightly larger. And several private shark aquarists on this board that are able to maintain their sharks at near public aquarium like quality.
I don't think you know what I meant by stunting. You got really defensive over captive care of sharks, when my point was most sharks sold end up in tanks that are too small. I work at a LFS and you will not believe how many customers get banded cat shark eggs or Epaulette sharks for their eventual 125. I would like to see a full grown specimen who was raised in a tank that it would be impossible to turn around in without any stunting or deformities. I know public aquariums have had fish reach their wild adult size, but IMO that isn't possible if the fish can possibly be larger than the tank it grows in.
And yes, many people do treat pets as children except for the fact they don't bother to learn about them and just do what "makes them happy".
I think most people on forums have skewed views of reality, because this is a community of dedicated hobbyists, and not the typical bread and butter variety people.
At the LFS I work at, we have hundreds of customers a day, and I have only met 3 or 4 people from MFK/AC. And none of our saltwater customers are on MFK, and most of them have little or no experience and think that the fish will comfortably grow to the size of the aquarium regardless of what they are told. IMO, these people are just going to take the animals home and kill them within a year. And while people should have freedoms, taking animals home and killing them because you wanted a shark that you couldn't care for should be controlled.
And yes, many people do treat pets as children except for the fact they don't bother to learn about them and just do what "makes them happy".
I think most people on forums have skewed views of reality, because this is a community of dedicated hobbyists, and not the typical bread and butter variety people.
At the LFS I work at, we have hundreds of customers a day, and I have only met 3 or 4 people from MFK/AC. And none of our saltwater customers are on MFK, and most of them have little or no experience and think that the fish will comfortably grow to the size of the aquarium regardless of what they are told. IMO, these people are just going to take the animals home and kill them within a year. And while people should have freedoms, taking animals home and killing them because you wanted a shark that you couldn't care for should be controlled.
Actually - most sharks that have been bought by uninformed aquarists - don't live long enough to be stunted. Sharks are NEVER be a fish that should ever be bought on an impulse.
As for me being a bit defensive as you've put it. It's because the irrespensibility of what your talking about - really ticks me off. It's because I know and understand what it takes to keep a shark alive. Also I have lots of experience in dealing with pet shops, & fish shops. And IMPE, with LFS it is just be about the money, not about help the customer, or doing the right thing for the animals in question. But in dealing with customers where an animal's life and safety are at stake - you have to be their representative. Which means you have to tell your customer what that animals needs are.
I've said time and time again - that I personally I don't like fish shops or pet shops.
What I'm basically saying is that if you are an employee of a LFS - it's your job, obligation & duty to learn what everything there is to know about what every fish in your store basically requires. Then you need to communicate that information to your customers and to ensure that they are capable of meeting that fish's needs before you actually sell it to them.
Actually - I think it's the LFS & pet shop employees that should be required to take a test on the animals that their store cares.
But I will agree that private aquarists, or an individual looking for a pet should research the animal in question before buying one. That's just plan old common sense. But the day when a person is required to take a test in order to get a permit to keep a cat, dog, parrot or other such animal - will truely be a sad day for our personal freedoms.
The sad truth is you can't learn much about keeping any animal - tropical fish, parrot or shark - in just 5 minutes of online research (assuming you have high speed internet). In keeping sharks - I've personally spent about months of time (over the last several years) researching sharks and information about keeping them in captivity, breeding them, their diets, their wild habitats, and such. And guess what - I'm still learning new stuff. It's actually that way with most animals.
I've seen it go both ways on tank size. I've literally seen animals break through the sides. The flip side of that is big sharks in small tanks create chemistry problems, and usually die as a result prior to ever seeing adult size.
As for permitting.... who is it that will say 'yes, you are ok to keep them' or 'no, you can't have them'??? The gov't doesn't have biologists on staff trained in captive shark care.
In fact, often times when U S F W goes into a situation involving captive sharks, there is a consultant from the outside involved. I've been that person before. We go on site and determine the health of the animals and voice an opinion in regard to the nature of the care being offered. The power is already in place for them to come in and take animals that aren't being cared for - permit or not. They just need to know about it. When the time comes, it takes months of investigation and planning prior to the final action.
To the comment about wanting to start a group to educate people about this problem, instead I suggest joining one of the thousands of groups already hard at work doing just that.
As for permitting.... who is it that will say 'yes, you are ok to keep them' or 'no, you can't have them'??? The gov't doesn't have biologists on staff trained in captive shark care.
In fact, often times when U S F W goes into a situation involving captive sharks, there is a consultant from the outside involved. I've been that person before. We go on site and determine the health of the animals and voice an opinion in regard to the nature of the care being offered. The power is already in place for them to come in and take animals that aren't being cared for - permit or not. They just need to know about it. When the time comes, it takes months of investigation and planning prior to the final action.
To the comment about wanting to start a group to educate people about this problem, instead I suggest joining one of the thousands of groups already hard at work doing just that.
