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    Something I’ve noticed.

    Discussion in 'General Aquaria Discussion' started by fishhead0103666, Jan 10, 2019.

    1. Rocksor

      Rocksor Blue Tier VIP

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      You are right that water conditioners work upon contact. However, you have to think in terms of Prime being like food coloring added to water.

      1. Fill 2 cups of water and add 2 drops of red food coloring, and observe. See how far the food coloring goes. Then stir the food coloring very slowly (about 3-4 seconds to complete rotation), and see how it disperses. The longer you stir the more dispersed the red coloring gets at that speed. The faster you stir, the sooner the red coloring gets dispersed.

      2. Fill 1/4 cup of water (simulating water in the tank), add 2 drops of food coloring, then add the rest 1 3/4 cups of water very slowly ( like refilling the tank). See how the food coloring disperses and "touches" the new water.

      I know that the ratio of food coloring to 2 cups of water maybe higher than Prime dosage and the amount of water you are adding in, but it's just to give you an idea.
       
      Kittiee Katt and RD. like this.
    2. fishhead0103666

      fishhead0103666 Giant Snakehead

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      I didn't mention that but my silver dollars are infact stressed for a bit after the water change but that's because they were exposed to water that has not been fully dechlorinated but I'm changing that.
      It's funny because at one point I was doing a full dose halfway through filling the tank then another full dose after filling the tank and they still would breathe heavy. I even did triple doses a few times and they still breathed heavy but I believe I know why. I believe that since I only have an air stone running it takes longer to get the dechlorinator moved all around and getting to all of the water. I'm highly considering getting another strong air pump and keeping it there to help move the water while filling the tank and getting a wave maker or two to help as well.
       
    3. RD.

      RD. Crazy Canuck

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      If you don't know your disinfectant residual at your taps, you have no idea how many capfuls, (1/4, 1/2,1, 2, 3 etc) are required, therefore the amounts you were using, especially at 2 or 3 capfuls, could have been significantly reducing 02 levels, causing the symptoms described. You don't have any idea what a "full dose" is. Prime is a reducing agent, once the chloramine or chlorine is reduced, any additional Prime will start reducing oxygen. That's where I would start.

      I'm not suggesting dechlorinator dispersion is also not important, it is, which is why I have intake tubes running to the bottom of my tanks, and why I always leave my filters running on refills. On very large water changes like I do this also becomes very important.
       
      #23 RD., Jan 10, 2019
      Last edited: Jan 10, 2019
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    4. RD.

      RD. Crazy Canuck

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    5. fishhead0103666

      fishhead0103666 Giant Snakehead

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      Thank you Rd for that, I did skim over it when it was first posted but didn't do anything. This time I will.
      Also thank you to everyone who has helped me, I really appreciate it.
       
    6. Seedy J

      Seedy J Jack Dempsey

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      I learn something new every day on this site. I had no idea about this!

      I've got 5 young (~3") SDs growing out in a 40 breeder. They get scared and hide in a corner during water changes but don't seem to be breathing heavily during the WC or afterward. I use a Python and remove ~50% of their water, add Prime (close to a capful), then usually spend a few minutes trying to temperature match my tap water before refilling the tank. The tap water is treated with ~2.6 ppm chloramine, so the standard dosage of Prime works.

      Slight hijack - should I be adding enough Prime to treat the whole tank, or just the new water (~20 gallons worth)?
       
    7. fishhead0103666

      fishhead0103666 Giant Snakehead

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      Hijack away as long as you benefit from it :).
      I’ve always heard that if you’re putting the water directly into the tank then you dose for the tank size. If you’re putting it in a container and treating it there then you treat for the amount.
      For example I use a 45 gallon trash can to make my water in so I treat for 45 gallons worth.
       
    8. RD.

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    9. duanes

      duanes MFK Moderators
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      I realize most people dose the entire tank volume, I don't, just for the reasons RD stated.
      I know my average tap water residual is always between 1and 1.50 ppm Chloramine, or sometimes slightly below (I lived only a short distance from the treatment plant). So when I was going to change between 100 and 150 gallons (an average water change on certain tanks for me) I dechlorinate for 150 gallons at 1ppm.
      I also would also check tap before water goes to the tanks, sometimes periodically throughout any change, just in case there had been an event the water company needed to shock the system for (sh"t happens). I always use the nose test too, sometimes it's faster.
      I also have tap sent to the sump, as opposed to direct to the tank. This helps blend the water, reducing temp, or any other difference of parameter shock. The sumps also have plenty of organic matter to eat up any disinfection residual.
      Tap
      [​IMG]
      Tank water with Sodium Thio added. [​IMG]
       
    10. RD.

      RD. Crazy Canuck

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      Unlike Duane I have treated for the full volume of the tank for many years.

      The logic of adding enough to treat the entire volume was explained to me many years ago by Dr. Greg Morin, the CEO and head chemist at Seachem. He stated; "some people prefer to just add the new untreated water directly to the tank... if they do that then we recommend the amount of Prime they add be based on the total gallonage of the aquarium rather than just what they added. The "extra" amount speeds up the rate of removal."

      Unlike Duane I typically change out a LOT of water in one go, 80-90%, I also add that water directly to the tank (no sumps), and I also have a higher rate of chloramine (2 ppm). Many years ago when I was still using Prime, and using sensors for NH3, the residual of ammonia was too high, and took too long to neutralize, when performing water changes and treating just the water volume being added. At a pH range of 8.0-8.2, even small amounts of free ammonia on a regular basis is not safe for fish.

      Once I switched to using dry powder water conditioners, the overall cost seems so miniscule that it just made more sense to me, and my set ups, to treat for the entire tank volume.
       
      Seedy J and Lilyann like this.

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