Speciation: Historic, Contemporary & Ideological

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captainahab

Feeder Fish
MFK Member
Jun 2, 2011
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Iowa, USA
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There is a current mindset that is very prevalent; and that is that all natural species are holy. The hardcore evolution “believer” feels that natural selection has induced these specific groups of genetic traits for a reason and they should not be changed for fear of upsetting some cosmic balance. The fundamentalist creation “believer” feels that God created each and every species in its entirety and that for man to change it is a sacrilege and insult to the Creator.
Evolution. Planetary “balance” is a false term. It doesn’t exist! By the very tenants of evolution all of nature is in constant flux so this so-called “balance” is never the same from one minute to the next. So the fear of upsetting or destroying it is as absurd as it is to fear moving a cup of water from one part of the ocean to another part; it will simply push water back to seek its own level. That is where the actual balance is; that things ARE constantly in motion/change and the system’s very purpose is to take into account external modifications.
Creation. God did not create every species on earth. Cichlid fish of the African Rift Lakes are speciating so fast that the taxonomists can’t keep up! Galapagos Islands, Australia, etc the list goes on and on of proof that new species are happening. So that takes the concept of species, to the creationist, instantly out of the too-holy-to-touch realm.

Responsible parents know that the best way to grow brains in children is NOT to provide them with shiny toy houses and airplanes, but to give them Kinex sets, Lincoln Logs, models to assemble, etc. This makes them think, lets them create things unexpected, prepares their minds and dexterity to add to and be part of a growing society. Why would we assume God to be less responsible? Has God shown himself to be so rigid and forceful that he requires you to only play with red plastic trains?
I believe that God gave us a huge set of “kinex” genetics, dumped them into the livingroom floor and said, “There, what are you going to do with THAT?!!” Part of that is a loose system of biological laws that allows change (evolution) to occur. I believe it is our responsibility as the premier intelligence on earth to make our planet BETTER for our being here. Attempting to leave it untouched makes us irrelevant. Einstein said it best; …”He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him a spinal cord would suffice.”

The requisites for evolution are need, time and isolation. If the ecosystem “needs” an organism to remain as it is, then any mutations moving away from that need will fail. If the system does not fit the organism exactly then eventually enough mutations that help will occur and accumulate. If the system changes faster than mutations can occur then extinction is likely. Lastly, there has to be a relatively small gene pool for mutations to have any substantial effect. It’s simple math. It is highly unlikely that a single mutation has enough ecosystem value to become established in a very large gene pool. This is the “loose system of laws”.
Now, let’s consider human accidental influence. Let’s use North American Sunfish as an example. Before NA was heavily populated by humans, Sunfish were isolated in their respective locales. And so, free to evolve as climate and external change required. But now there are hundreds of millions of people here. We catch a Green Sunfish here and release it there. We ship a Dollar Sunfish from North Carolina and release it in Texas. We have effectively STOPPED the evolutionary process. These fish are no longer isolated; the gene pool is huge. And for the fundamentalist purists out there; you cannot change that situation. It’s part of being human.

So in summation. It is my deep belief that it is our RESPONSIBILITY to develop new varieties, new breeds and new species. For the sake and use of humanity. For the correction of humanities effect. To leave the world better, brighter and more varied than when we came.

David Ruble
 
kinda random but a good read.
 
i think we are already having a huge impact in that sense. our actions etc. are already forcing other species to evolve not only physical traits but, in a larger amount of instances, behavioral traits that cant be ignored as part of the evolutionary process for its respective species. And we have to if we want to keep eating stuff like tuna.
 
So in summation. It is my deep belief that it is our RESPONSIBILITY to develop new varieties, new breeds and new species. For the sake and use of humanity. For the correction of humanities effect. To leave the world better, brighter and more varied than when we came.

So, because we have interrupted the "natural" system of speciation (itself simply a term to group relations of evolutionarily similar animals) we now have a responsibility to continue so? I fail to see any connection between what humans have done in shuffling the genetic deck and your impulse to change the entire card game, which is what you are encouraging. It is one thing for us to alter ecosystems and transfer genetic material out of carelessness or ignorance, and another entirely different approach to "develop new varieties, new breeds, and new species ... for the sake and use of humanity". If anything, we should be wary that altered habitats tend to LOSE genetic diversity, not gain it. To be honest, one wouldn't be leaving the world any more varied through your processes than you claim; simply because the genetic potential has always been there, ergo that variety ALREADY exists. What doesn't exist is the exploitation of that genetic potential.

Don't hide behind some twisted logic of what is good for "humanity", be specific in what exactly you mean. You state that humans have "stopped the evolutionary process", which is clearly hyperbolic, and thus poor ground indeed to declare we should thusly become the agents of phylogenetic change, as if an isolated aquarium is comparable to an ecological system (which is obviously your intent, seeing this was posted on an aquarium forum). So, I ask you to explain exactly what your wording ("for the sake and use of humanity") means.

If we are to take a Biblical tack (as you reference God {capital g} and Creation), it is clearly indicated in Scripture that mankind is to have dominion over the world. But this is not simply domination, rather stewardship. In fact, the original Hebrew words translated into English (Genesis 2:15) for "keep" mean to preserve. [see http://www.doesgodexist.org/MayJun08/BiblicalCalltoEnvironmentalStewardship.html for more] Undoubtedly we have failed miserably in our mission, but I fail to see the connection between an order to preserve nature and a call to assume the role as agent of evolutionary change. Do you?
 
I posted in an aquarium forum because this is the current place I am active.

100 yrs ago, corn produced far less than 50 bushels to the acre. Today, in large part due to genetic manipulation, it produces over 200 bushels to the acre. Thus creating cheap grain which in turn creates cheap beef, pork and poultry. At last century's agriculture technology we could not feed our current poplulation. We would starve. So while people whine and complain about GMO's, pesticides, herbicides and petroleum use, they do so while getting fat on the advancements of genetic sciences.

If I felt the need to further state this, we could investigate the ag animals as well; ALL production animals and animal derivitives are being produced at substantially higher percentages than 100 years ago. Again, thanks primarily to genetic manipulation, selection and research.

Fear and loathing of hybrids is simply ignorance of history and the world around us. And the sociological embrasing of such nonsense is in the process of reducing our food pantry, our building materials, our pastimes.

I have no intention in having a flame out. My intention is to present the reality side that media and rumors seem to ignore, and hopefully preserve a bit of sanity and hope for my children.
 
Interestingly, I was going to bring up increased yields in agriculture as a counter to your statements. You did it for me. The base trend of Western agriculture is monoculture, a dependence on one particular crop variety. This approach allows for intensive exploitation of a particular group of genetic data to the exclusion of others. Therein lies the rub. Rather than increase diversity, it diminishes it. Farmed bananas, for example, are all clones of the particular variety - those little black specks at the base would be seeds if the "creators" had selected for sexual reproduction, which they didn't - and thus susceptible to the same weaknesses. Man (and Dole/Chiquita!) have overcome this by simply replacing the variety with new ones; the bulk of bananas people ate 50 years ago are NOT the same as we eat today, and those today will most certainly not be those eaten in 50 years. Is science the savior for overcoming these genetic drawbacks, or at fault for putting humankind at risk to them? Not easy questions to answer, and while the understanding that greater genetic diversity (see "seed banks", for example) is integral to dealing with future foodstuff issues has improved, the continued trend by science allied to big business is monoculture. I've no doubt that Fugupuff's continued efforts to encourage intelligent and healthy food consumption indicate his concern of this as well.

Agriculture livestock may very well be more fecund nowadays than historically. What I do know is that there is a net LOSS of genetic data the last 150 years as agriculture has intensified and many strains & varieties are lost. Perhaps what you are stating - in summary - is recognition of that fact.

In the end, I've no issue with scientific manipulation of genetic data, provided it is used with discretion and foresight. Dow Chemicals isn't so much interested in diversifying their genetic catalog as they are in selling it, which is but an example of my concern.

I do take issue with the backyard exchange of genetic data via reckless interbreeding of cichlid species (which is what this subforum is set to discuss - well, without the "reckless" part :) ), which prompted my original diatribe.
 
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