Stingray Symposium update

[amazongirl]

Amazongirl - so are you saying that what most people call 'menchacai' tiger rays are just a variant of what the hobby knows as schroederi, the true Colombian flowers? Very cool, and completely understandable seeing some of the 'tiger' pics that have a pattern halfway between the two.

That's what Patricia, Mauricio and Getulio all agreed on looking at the Tiger Rays that Shedd has in it's collection. If that's what they say, it's good enough for me!

 

[rayman]

Hi Amazongirl,

that is good news, that the tigerray verses flowerray discussions end up that all are schroederi!

For all who thought that tigerray are P. menchacai here again what I wrote some time ago in another thread:

The holotype of P. menchacai is from Santa Fe, Argentina and Rosa wrote:
"The holotype of P. menchacai agrees with P. falkneri in all examined characters (dentition, tail spines, morphometrics and meristics), excepting the yellow spots on the disc, which are relatively larger than in typical specimens of P. falkneri. This condition is interpreted as an intraspecific variation of the color pattern, and P. menchacai is regarded as a synonym of P. falkneri"

The conclusion in the Aqualog, that the tiger ray may be P. menchacai is only based on a pure black and white picture of the holotype in Rosas work. In this picture you can only see a nearly black ray and the disk shape and tail lenght is similar to that of a tiger ray. Btw. this is one of the better pictures in my copy, the former picture that show the paratype of P. falkneri is black in black with only some white dots and lines on it ... no ray visible ... so it is impossible to compare the body shape with the menchacai holotype.

 

[T1KARMANN]

this looked like a great event

so tiger and flower are the same type of ray thats good news that this has been cleared up this is something i have thought for a long time

 

[Miles]

Hi Amazongirl,

that is good news, that the tigerray verses flowerray discussions end up that all are schroederi!

For all who thought that tigerray are P. menchacai here again what I wrote some time ago in another thread:

I always remembered you posting about Menchacai actually being a holotype/synonym for Falkneri.. confused me as how to Tiger rays got that label?


MFK was on the Tiger/Flower ray debate like 3 years ago Alot of us suspected it for quite some time now!

Now my question is.. what about the Peruvian Schroederi? Just a much different pattern? because they acted, looked, and ate like Motoros IMO..

 

[turkeyboy85]

wow i cant wait to see this video. if i wasnt a poor college student i would have been there too. great info started already

 

[michael]

sounds liek a good time. Wish I could have went. Patiently waiting for pics

 

[Gr8KarmaSF]

Females perhaps exhibit some degree of parental care in the wild- how cool is that!

It was great to meet and talk to everyone. I wish we had had more time.

E

Please elaborate on how they show some degree of parental care! Sounds like an amazing discovery!

 

[T1KARMANN]

Please elaborate on how they show some degree of parental care! Sounds like an amazing discovery!

i would say the adults do show some kind of care as i found that the pups did much better when left with the adults

i also think the rays have more pups in captivaty because the cant get away from a male like they can in the wild

was their any discusion on pearls being the same type of ray as motoro

 

[Zoodiver]

Parental care was extended to less than a days time. First info shows that the female will remain with the pups for several hours after birth.

As for the "Tiger" debate... having so many animals coming out of the wild under one common name is so confusing. But like Erica said - there will be more defined latin coming along with time so that we can properly group these different rays.
I'm very interested to see what happens. The menchacai being combined with the schroederi is 'heated' to say the least. One thing that was confirmed for me is that using color/patterns to determine spp can't be done. I forget the number off the top of my head - but there are around 6 or so different color patterns to orbigs alone. Better DNA markers will be the end means to determine spp soon (I think).


And a big thanks to all who made it happen and all to came out. I was awesome to meet so many MFKers and meet up with some old friends again.

 

[Nic]

when is the video gonna come out??? i would like to see it... i really wish i could have been there....