Sudden ammonia spike in 75 gallon tank.

[skjl47]

not sure whether BB is helping out in this

Hello; You have nitrate present. That means you have some bb and those are using some of the ammonia and nitrite. You just do not yet have enough bb to "eat" all the ammonia and all the nitrite.

PH is at 6.6 and I am using reverse osmosis water, I think the ocean free black water which I used has reduced the ph, I used it one day alone and also half the prescribed amount.

Hello; I also do not like messing with pH at all. It is very tricky and most often not needed. As stated a stable pH is usually fine.

Ammonia is at 0.25ppm, nitrite 0ppm, nitrate still at 40ppm

Hello; Do more WC more often and give the bb time to catch up.

Always keep an stable ph in your water.

BB I want the bacteria to get established, just thinking whether frequent water changes will bother the cycle formation.

Hello; The WC will not affect the bb them selves. You are in a catch 22 situation.
It is true that more WC will dilute the ammonia and the nitrite. You can stop the WC now and the bb will have a lot of ammonia and nitrite around. However the bb are not yet in large enough population numbers to take both toxins all in and convert them all to nitrates. It is the somewhat slow reproduction rate of the bb that is your stumbling point for a short while. As long as there is any ammonia in the water when tested then the bb are not yet up to a population that is fully balanced with the available ammonia.

So if you back off on the WC then the catch of this catch 22 shows up in the form of toxins (ammonia and nitrite) that are doing some amount of harm to the live fish you have. To try to reduce this harm you need to do WC even more often that you have reported so far.

Here is a potential plan. Keep doing WC every other day at 40 to 50% as long as any ammonia is still showing up at all. When Ammonia some day is at zero (0) then start skipping a day with the WC. If the ammonia is still zero then skip another day and so on.

cuz am adding seachem stability

Hello; Your call of course but I do not use these things. You already have some bb because there are nitrates showing up when you test the tank water.
Near as I can tell you just removed a significant portion of the bb, but not all of it. It will take some time for things to get back into balance. More WC and reduced feedings for a while should be enough based on what I have read in this thread.

 

[rajpradeep32@gmail.com]

Hello; You have nitrate present. That means you have some bb and those are using some of the ammonia and nitrite. You just do not yet have enough bb to "eat" all the ammonia and all the nitrite.


Hello; I also do not like messing with pH at all. It is very tricky and most often not needed. As stated a stable pH is usually fine.


Hello; Do more WC more often and give the bb time to catch up.




Hello; The WC will not affect the bb them selves. You are in a catch 22 situation.
It is true that more WC will dilute the ammonia and the nitrite. You can stop the WC now and the bb will have a lot of ammonia and nitrite around. However the bb are not yet in large enough population numbers to take both toxins all in and convert them all to nitrates. It is the somewhat slow reproduction rate of the bb that is your stumbling point for a short while. As long as there is any ammonia in the water when tested then the bb are not yet up to a population that is fully balanced with the available ammonia.

So if you back off on the WC then the catch of this catch 22 shows up in the form of toxins (ammonia and nitrite) that are doing some amount of harm to the live fish you have. To try to reduce this harm you need to do WC even more often that you have reported so far.

Here is a potential plan. Keep doing WC every other day at 40 to 50% as long as any ammonia is still showing up at all. When Ammonia some day is at zero (0) then start skipping a day with the WC. If the ammonia is still zero then skip another day and so on.


Hello; Your call of course but I do not use these things. You already have some bb because there are nitrates showing up when you test the tank water.
Near as I can tell you just removed a significant portion of the bb, but not all of it. It will take some time for things to get back into balance. More WC and reduced feedings for a while should be enough based on what I have read in this thread.

Did a 30% water change, now ammonia is at 0, nitrite 0 and nitrate is around 30 ppm ( Very dark orangish colour, doesn't fall in 20 or 40ppm range in api chart). Ph is 6.6.

But still Arowana keeps sitting at the bottom, also observing this new thing in it, once in a while tries to swim but tries to bend it body and bite its tail and swims erratically / very fast around the tank and again comes to the bottom, also at times tries to scratch its body.

The way it swims like without control and like panicked makes me feel very sad about its state, after putting in all this effort, aro still seems to be sick

 

[rajpradeep32@gmail.com]

Saw this video in you tube ,

My Arowana is doing the same thing as in this video, except mine rests most of the time at the bottom and swims occasionally.

 

[skjl47]

Did a 30% water change, now ammonia is at 0, nitrite 0 and nitrate is around 30 ppm

Hello; Seems the bb are back in sufficient numbers at this time. keep in mind the balance between the bb and the ammonia and nitrite is dynamic. Add or remove a large fish and the balance is upset. Clean out too many bb from a filter and the balance is upset.

One more suggestion. Shake the vial during the nitrate test a lot. A very, very lot of shaking. A common target many use for nitrates is 20 ppm.
Up to you but WC is how to get there. By the way check your source water or nitrate levels. Some have reported significant nitrate levels in their source water (tap , well or where ever you get the water). If nitrates are in the source water then WC will not be very effective.

The way it swims like without control and like panicked makes me feel very sad about its state, after putting in all this effort, aro still seems to be sick

Hello; Does sound bad. I do not have a guess about this. Might be from the ammonia the last while. Might be from the combination of chemicals you have been using. Might be something that was already going to happen and not related to this latest "mini - cycle".

My suggestion is to stop with the chemicals other than those used to treat chlorine/chloramine during a WC. Try to keep the water in good condition with WC.

Question - Do you siphon the substrate during a WC? By this I mean siphon out detritus , poo and junk from inside the tank. Doing this can remove excess uneaten food that will rot in the water.

 

[skjl47]

75gallon tank with 2 eheim 2217 filters, only one albino silver aro '12inches' is present in it

Tank capacity is 70 gallons, I have filled upto 55 gallons

Hello; A possibly large part of your problems is you have very much too much fish for even 70 gallons of water. (The sump volume helps a little).
For the fish you have at 12 inches the tank is not enough. That fish is going to get much bigger. Based on some of your postings I gather you have not been doing enough WC. To be blunt, with that fish you probably need to be doing as much as 60% WC almost every day.
If you have been overfeeding and not getting the excess food out of the tank then rot byproducts are building up in the tank.

A much bigger tank is needed or a much bigger WC schedule is needed. My guess is that fish needs to be in a bigger tank very soon.
Good luck

 

[rajpradeep32@gmail.com]

Hello; Seems the bb are back in sufficient numbers at this time. keep in mind the balance between the bb and the ammonia and nitrite is dynamic. Add or remove a large fish and the balance is upset. Clean out too many bb from a filter and the balance is upset.

One more suggestion. Shake the vial during the nitrate test a lot. A very, very lot of shaking. A common target many use for nitrates is 20 ppm.
Up to you but WC is how to get there. By the way check your source water or nitrate levels. Some have reported significant nitrate levels in their source water (tap , well or where ever you get the water). If nitrates are in the source water then WC will not be very effective.


Hello; Does sound bad. I do not have a guess about this. Might be from the ammonia the last while. Might be from the combination of chemicals you have been using. Might be something that was already going to happen and not related to this latest "mini - cycle".

My suggestion is to stop with the chemicals other than those used to treat chlorine/chloramine during a WC. Try to keep the water in good condition with WC.

Question - Do you siphon the substrate during a WC? By this I mean siphon out detritus , poo and junk from inside the tank. Doing this can remove excess uneaten food that will rot in the water.

Yes I vaccum the sand in the tank during wc, also I had a think bed of sand, I have now taken off most of the sand (60%) and have just left a think layer of sand at the bottom.

 

[rajpradeep32@gmail.com]

Hello; A possibly large part of your problems is you have very much too much fish for even 70 gallons of water. (The sump volume helps a little).
For the fish you have at 12 inches the tank is not enough. That fish is going to get much bigger. Based on some of your postings I gather you have not been doing enough WC. To be blunt, with that fish you probably need to be doing as much as 60% WC almost every day.
If you have been overfeeding and not getting the excess food out of the tank then rot byproducts are building up in the tank.

A much bigger tank is needed or a much bigger WC schedule is needed. My guess is that fish needs to be in a bigger tank very soon.
Good luck

This is the only fish which I have in the 75 gallon and I was planning to move to 300 gallon once it has reached 18 inches.
Will not use any more medicines, will try to fix with water change even if there is ammonia spike.
Fed the fish with dried shrimps and aro showed good appetite and ate most of it.

 

[skjl47]

Yes I vaccum the sand in the tank during wc, also I had a think bed of sand, I have now taken off most of the sand (60%) and have just left a think layer of sand at the bottom.

Hello; This is good. sand over an inch thick has been known to form pockets of anaerobic bacteria. (pockets where there in no oxygen with bacteria that can only live where there is no oxygen). These bacteria produce metabolic byproducts that can be toxic to fish. I think methane may be one and hydrogen sulfide may be another.
Those with sand suggest to stir it up every few days to once a week to help keep these pockets from forming.
This might possibly be a part of the issues you have been having with the tank. At any rate with more frequent WC the tank may be on the way to better water conditions.

 

[skjl47]

Hello; A thing to keep in mind is that we only have the ability to test our water for a few things. There can be and very likely are other things in the tank water we simply cannot test for.
Some use 20 ppm nitrate as an indicator of water quality. Not because it is the main thing but because we have a simple way to check for this.
The idea is that if the nitrates are kept at or below 20 ppm then most likely these other things are at decent levels.
I read threads and posts where members are trying to avoid WC and use schemes which only go after the nitrates. I feel they are not considering all the other things that can be in the water.
Water changes often seems to be a key.

 

[rajpradeep32@gmail.com]

Hello; A thing to keep in mind is that we only have the ability to test our water for a few things. There can be and very likely are other things in the tank water we simply cannot test for.
Some use 20 ppm nitrate as an indicator of water quality. Not because it is the main thing but because we have a simple way to check for this.
The idea is that if the nitrates are kept at or below 20 ppm then most likely these other things are at decent levels.
I read threads and posts where members are trying to avoid WC and use schemes which only go after the nitrates. I feel they are not considering all the other things that can be in the water.
Water changes often seems to be a key.

Ammonia back to 0.5ppm from 0, nitrite 0, nitrate between 20 to 40 ppm, did a 20 percent water change and hoping that would have reduced the ammonia level a bit and the bb forms soon.