Suggestions for an uncommon SA dwarf cichlid

[Mythic Figment]

I agree with Ryan that any central American pair can turn on eachother in too small of a tank. I've kept lots of cryptoheros species, and have lost my share of females to aggression. Dividers will work, but aren't the best looking thing in a display tank. I've recently been experimenting with keeping a group in a 55, specifically with cryptoheros coatepeque, an uncommon type from the convict complex. The group is 2 males and 4 females, with a few other cichlids to draw the attention of pairs when they breed. I've had this set up for close to a year and have not yet lost a fish to aggression. Each male has his territory on opposite sides of the tank and they each breed regularly. I have to siphon out fry if I want any to survive, but so far it is working well.

In a 20, I would always have a divider handy. HRP's are a good choice, as they are some of the least aggressive cryptoheros I have kept. If you are looking for something really out of the ordinary, you could try your hand with ivanocara. Your initial outlay for the fish will be pricey, but you wouldn't have any issue moving out fry at a good price.

I may try this method of siphoning fry out into a bucket and then removing them to their own tank.

I love the blue of the HRPs. Aggression may be my biggest obstacle. If I were to house a pair in a 20 (or I have a 40 if a 20 is too small), what dithers/target fish would be best to give it a community feel that will also keep the pair from killing each other?

I love the look of the ivanacara too. Price might be a bit too high though. Cheapest online price I can find is $40 each. I will have to talk with some of my LFSs to see if they can get them in cheaper. Or if I could find a proven pair so I don't have to buy 6 and let them pair up, that would be better.


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[ahud]

I think I have a different definition of "dwarf cichlids" lol. I would not classify many of the Cryptoheros as dwarfs. N. anomala females are extremely feisty, which makes them a very fun dwarf. My little 1.5" female would try to drive off full grown L. thayeri! The males are impressive as well, and to add to the fun they mature around 5-6 months.

You have a lot more to the Pelvicachromis genus than kribs(P. pulcher). Certain locales for P. taeniatus for example should move really well, especially if you sell them for a decent price. You can even get a larger species, like P. humilis.

Ivanacara are too fussy for my taste. So be prepared for a hard spawn if you go that route.

 

[ryansmith83]

I lost my Ivanacara when my water went wonky. They were one of the first fish to show signs of a problem. They didn't grow well or color up for me either, so I'd definitely suggest soft water for them if you try keeping those.

I am growing out pairs of Pelvicachromis sacrimontis and Enigmatochromis lucanusi, both krib-type West Africans. They can be shy, too.

Orange heads will spawn in a community setup if they are comfortable. Give them a quiet corner isolated behind some rocks or plants and they'll make use of it. You can also keep them in pair tanks. Some people keep them as a trio with the pair plus an extra geo, but in my experience that extra fish is going to catch hell. I did this with my G. brachybranchus and they beat the crap out of the extra fish. The male also beat the crap out of the female after he swallowed his batch of fry, so it can go both ways. I'd never seen geos that aggressive until then.

 

[Mythic Figment]

I think I have a different definition of "dwarf cichlids" lol. I would not classify many of the Cryptoheros as dwarfs. N. anomala females are extremely feisty, which makes them a very fun dwarf. My little 1.5" female would try to drive off full grown L. thayeri! The males are impressive as well, and to add to the fun they mature around 5-6 months.

You have a lot more to the Pelvicachromis genus than kribs(P. pulcher). Certain locales for P. taeniatus for example should move really well, especially if you sell them for a decent price. You can even get a larger species, like P. humilis.

Ivanacara are too fussy for my taste. So be prepared for a hard spawn if you go that route.

No, I think you're definition is fine. It's mine that is off. LOL I thinking having my larger cichlids has spoiled me. I do like the nannacara though.

I had no idea there were other kribs species. Very interesting. I will have to delve deeper into the genus to find out more.

Thanks for the info on the ivanacaras, ahud and Ryan. Between difficulty breeding and super sensitivity to water conditions, I will pass on these guys.


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[Mythic Figment]

I lost my Ivanacara when my water went wonky. They were one of the first fish to show signs of a problem. They didn't grow well or color up for me either, so I'd definitely suggest soft water for them if you try keeping those.

I am growing out pairs of Pelvicachromis sacrimontis and Enigmatochromis lucanusi, both krib-type West Africans. They can be shy, too.

Orange heads will spawn in a community setup if they are comfortable. Give them a quiet corner isolated behind some rocks or plants and they'll make use of it. You can also keep them in pair tanks. Some people keep them as a trio with the pair plus an extra geo, but in my experience that extra fish is going to catch hell. I did this with my G. brachybranchus and they beat the crap out of the extra fish. The male also beat the crap out of the female after he swallowed his batch of fry, so it can go both ways. I'd never seen geos that aggressive until then.

I saw your post about the sacrimontis when I searched them in Google. Watched the video in the link. Very cool fish. I couldn't find info on how big they get, but I would assume its at least 6" since they are called Giant Kribs. How have your sacrimontis been since you posted in April?

I like the idea of the mirror in the water that the video showed. Any thoughts on if that method of conspecific aggression release really works?

I will try to see if they will spawn for me in the corner of the community tank. As it is now. If it doesn't work and they keep swallowing their kids, I will move them to their own tank and give them dithers to keep them alert and focused on something other than each other.


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[decoy50]

For HRPs - I had zero aggression within the pair, but all other HRPs in the tank were brutalized! I bought four from Rapps and a pair formed at around 3in female/4in male in my 75gal. Really tight pair bond and prolific breeders. If i removed the fry, I had a new batch of around 50 every two weeks. Rapps Rio Danli strain is really nice BTW.

 

[ahud]

P. sacrimontis get to be around 4" in the wild. P. humilis is the largest, coming in at roughly 5". IME, pair killing goes up with the size of the fish. In my opinion it makes sense, the bigger the fish, the larger the territory required. So when the female gives the male the "go guard the perimeter" nudge, he can't always satisfy her. In bigger tanks with small fish, this behavior is easy to see. Plus the larger fish can do so much damage in such a short amount of time. One reason I am not a big fish fan (Probably the wrong thing to say on this forum!!).

One thing to consider, a lot of times a fish is uncommon for a reason. P. humilis for example is going to be more aggressive towards conspecifics than something like P. taeniatus. Which makes it less desirable, so I doubt there would be high demmand for them unless you knew people who were really interested in westies or the genus. If you want a semi uncommon, nice looking dwarf, I would suggest P. taeniatus "Moliwe". You should not have issues unloading fry either. Here is a link to Ted Judy's gallary on the various Pelvicachromis species, it should give you an idea of what you may like.
http://tedsfishroom.com/gallery/genus-pelvicachromis/

 

[darth pike]

If going for one of the Pelvicachromis, I would only put one of the three dwarf species: P. taeniatus, P. subocellatus, or P. roloffi in a 20 high ... I wouldn't trust one of the nondwarves in a tank that size, the females can be rough on the males when breeding as ahud mentioned. Conversely, the males can be hard on the female if she's not ready to breed.

 

[Mythic Figment]

P. sacrimontis get to be around 4" in the wild. P. humilis is the largest, coming in at roughly 5". IME, pair killing goes up with the size of the fish. In my opinion it makes sense, the bigger the fish, the larger the territory required. So when the female gives the male the "go guard the perimeter" nudge, he can't always satisfy her. In bigger tanks with small fish, this behavior is easy to see. Plus the larger fish can do so much damage in such a short amount of time. One reason I am not a big fish fan (Probably the wrong thing to say on this forum!!).

One thing to consider, a lot of times a fish is uncommon for a reason. P. humilis for example is going to be more aggressive towards conspecifics than something like P. taeniatus. Which makes it less desirable, so I doubt there would be high demmand for them unless you knew people who were really interested in westies or the genus. If you want a semi uncommon, nice looking dwarf, I would suggest P. taeniatus "Moliwe". You should not have issues unloading fry either. Here is a link to Ted Judy's gallary on the various Pelvicachromis species, it should give you an idea of what you may like.
http://tedsfishroom.com/gallery/genus-pelvicachromis/

I like some of the big cichlids, but I too am not much of a monster fish fan. Sorry MFKers. The little ones are just as cute and usually much less work. LOL I will say that I absolutely love my red sevs and I won't mind having these 12" beauties. Unfortunately that is about as big as I am willing to get into though.

Good point about uncommon fish being that way for a reason. And thanks for the link to the pelvicachromis gallery. I am still leaning towards P. taeniatus and I love the Moliwe coloration most of all.


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[ahud]

Great! As an added bonus "Moliwe" is one of the easier taeniatus locales. Some of the locales are more fussy about water parameters so make sure you do some research before deciding.

My favorite thing about small to medium sized fish is that given enough tank space, more natural behavior can be observed. Where as with big fish, enough tank space would be cost prohibitive!