Taboo: Goldfish in a tropical tank

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Gonzaga;707394; said:
I had a feeder in my GT and JD tank and now he's about the same size as the Demspey!! Fat little bugger. I think he does an excellent job of keeping the tank clean. I've been thinking of doing this in all my tanks, he sits there and works allll day long! Kinda like a day laborer:ROFL:

My understanding is that GF can produce higher levels of ammonia than tropicals. They would clean up the visible mess, but increase the invisible.

I could be wrong ...
 
OK, in that picture in my OP, that goldfish lived for 3 years in a 55 gallon tank with a mix of barbs. I gave it to my in-laws to put in their pond (since it would be so much better for the fish :shakehead ) and it died before summer was out.

Yep, I think that the fancy varieties of goldfish like the warmer water of a tropical tank. But as far as freely admitting I've kept goldfish and tropicals together long term; well, that's one of my "dirty little fish secrets" that I don't mention to most people.:lipsseale
 
I'd say a goldfish is just a little more dirty than a common pleco. I've kept them with with everything. I set-up my girlfriend's 15 gallon with a trio of 2"+ Ryukins and after the tank cycled she bought 6 cardinals that lived the better part of the year. Then I pulled the Ryukins and threw them in my pond and a month later the FN cards died.
 
Theres a few reason's that come to mind.. Other than they are ugly, stupid, and incredibely common.. Heres some that I can think of..

1) Water Quality issues.. Goldfish tend to release alot more Urea than other fish, especially the man-made 'Globoid' shaped ornamentals. If you think about a fish's body shape in the wild, each fish through evolution has evolved it's body to best fit it's environment. Ornamental goldfish had no choice in their body shape, so they must expend more energy in order to swim and compete for food. This creates 'Metabolic waste' which is similiar to a human sweating. Ornamental Goldfish simply put off an extraordinary amount of waste, which can be detrimnetal to a number of ammonia sensative tropicals. (The higher the temp and pH, the more toxic Ammonia.. Hence, Goldfish living in a cold water, low pH bowl is non-toxic.. in hard water in a warm area, its quick death..)

2) Water Temperature.. Sure, you can find a happy medium in which both fish can live happily. Most fish are adaptable to temperature, so I am not going to say they wont 'Thrive' without the temp being perfect. One thing you need to keep in mind, however, is that the increase in temp will increase the metabolism of the goldfish, thus creating more metabolic waste. Sure, alot of Goldfish sites reccomend a higher temperature to aid in digestion, but at the same time these websites also are adamant about keeping goldfish in a species only tank, which is often VERY UNDER-CROWDED. (1 or 2 per 55g)

3) Disease vulneribiltiy.. Most Ornamental Goldfish are captive bred, so the disease you might see in them should not be specific only to goldfish. However, these captive bred ornamentals have never had the exposure of many of the tropical diseases that you see from wild-caught fish. A wild-caught South American fish, that could be very tolerant to a specific disease from it's native waters, might be a disease courier for a vulnerable captive bred ornamental species. Think: Native Americans + European Settlers.

4) Aggression.. Goldfish are notoriously stupid. They are very easily picked on, and their fins can be tattered quickly by nippy fish. Although some fish just ignore the goldfish, it is likely to happen eventually. I am always surprised to see healthy feeders grow up with predators, as I would assume their fins would get shredded. Also, goldfish are big algae grazers with a big appettite.. If you take certain precautions to get extra peaceful species to co-habitate with the goldfish, they might just acquire a taste for slime-coating and stress the peaceful tropical fish..

Just a few of my thoughts on the issue.. Like others said, I find it un-natural and pretty much annoying when I see this happen.. As if It's a waste of valuable bio-load space that cuold be used on a fish with a brain bigger than a grain of sand. Did I mention they are stupid and ugly? Ah well, it's just an opinion!
 
Glad it's not my opinion lol Goldfish are beautiful and responsible for getting me into this hobby when I was a kid.

Their history is fascinating, and they can be thought of as "the original pet fish".

Yes, they do produce more waste than your average fish, but an experienced aquarist already knows that and compensates accordingly. In an established aquarium of proper size, you should still not see any ammonia.

As for the whole comparison between indians, pilgrims, and fish.... the tanks that do have goldfish mixed with tropicals usually have tank bred tropicals... I haven't seen anyone keep goldies with their rare wild-caught fish.

The fish that are typically extremely sensitive to ammonia, are usually too small to be kept with goldies anyways.

You're right, goldfish can be picked on by fish such as barbs, but if the owner cares about their goldfish, they'll figure out how to cross that bridge if comes up, or preferably, they've done their research ahead of time and wont mix them with nippy fish. Either way, we all make mistakes, and we learn.
 
I've grown really really fond of goldfish. I have kind of a tropical-ish tank going, in which I have the following at 74 degrees:

1 shubunkin
1 fantail
1 celestial

golden barbs
zebra danios
cory cats
dojo loaches
1 syno eruptus
1 male betta
1 newt

The goldfish are really the most interesting fish to watch in there, and they keep the gravel very free of debris. I really overfilter, so the water is always nice and clean.

There was a thread on the sister site ac about how someone got really tired of watching his cichlids maul each other, and turned his 260g (I think) into a fancy goldfish tank :) It looked really nice.

some of the more recent "show quality" ranchus, lionheads, pearl scales and ryukins just look too odd to me. they look like they'd be better baseballs than fish.
 
How are your golden barbs? I've suggested them to people looking for peaceful fish over on AC and the usual guppy owners jumped down my throat "noooo gold barbs are aggressive blah blah blah blah blah!!!" (a lot of regurgitated falsehoods from the net, or advice not based on experience).

:chillpill:

IME, they're peaceful and just because they're "barbs" don't mean nothin.
 
Thank you phaedraeos; much appreciated. ;)
 
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