Tank Size

[Miguel]

Cool it guys...lets keep the debate on level .

 

[classic-chassis]

Explain why you believe buying a 3" silver is "idiotic at best". Any experience with this?

It's not, I was wrong to write it. You called me "high and mighty" and I bit.

No I don't agree with putting a small fish in a huge tank. There is no need for it whatsoever. Not to mention how much harder it is to feed or medicate.

I didn't ask you if you agreed with putting tiny fish in massive tanks, I asked you if you agreed whether the fish should be the last thing bought in a new aro set up or not.
As I said

"I wouldn't recommend buying a 300 gal tank for a silver either. "

If a new keeper is going to get one though I advise them to do things in the correct order, and make sure they can afford the minimum "for life" tank you need before you buy the fish.
I agree with you, a small fish should be in a grow out tank before it's placed in the tank it will be spending the rest of it's life in, but I think it would be a good idea to own the final tank first as well. Aros, Asian or otherwise grow quickly and time flies by.

What does my black aro have to do with anything? Except for the fact that you just want to get a dig in. How was I not prepared? If you gonna bring up something at least get the facts straight, there was no hole the tank was sealed. I can only speculate as to how it got out.

I didn't want to get a dig in Beders, That's why I wrote

"with all due respect"

and

"I'm sorry to say it and I mean no disrespect."

I mentioned your aro because it got out, even though you know they tend to do it and you're and experienced keeper of South American arows.
Fact is it got out even though you thought it was locked down.
I am sorry for that, truly. I'm also sorry for the SA aros I see all too often here in small tanks. The small fish that were bought at 7in and the owners are lazy or can't afford to by the minimum tank size they should have done before they bought the fish, or just were plan stupid and crul.
Further more I’ve also learnt from your tragic loss and bought 2 stone Chinese lion figures to sit on top of my lid to make it even more heavy than it already is.

Best thing for you is to comment on your experiences, which are few if any when dealing with arowana other then asians.

My experiences with Asians is limited if any. For me Beders it all started here,
http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=127027
Which you contributed to, and I am and was grateful for your input.
As you can see I did exactly what you said below.

Why not just educate and let them make their own decision. Who are you to judge anyone?

I read the advice and made my own decision.
I don't think I'm judging anyone in a negative manner, unless you think asking the question or agreeing with it.
"I wonder how many SA aro owners own the massive tanks, they recommend?"
As you can see from my first ever "tank size question" it was recommended I buy super size tanks by a lot of posters, until you pointed out "what aro are you buying?"
I’m sorry if I upset you, or caused an argument, but I'm trying to be objective by advising potential aro owners to buy in the correct process. That’s certainly not the fish first.
Just out of curiosity, as an experienced owner of SA arrows what do you think the minimum “for life” footprint is?

 

[cogs]

i do what i want , whatever , i do what i what stop ya *****in end of day getto pond is the go 6' dirameter is better at least they can do laps

 

[classic-chassis]

^ Don't think the wife would agree to a pond in the living room! It would be pretty cool though!
Do you buy the fish before the pond or after?

 

[Bderick67]

My replies in red, and the least you could do is get my name right. Kind of disrespectful and insulting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bderick67
Explain why you believe buying a 3" silver is "idiotic at best". Any experience with this?

It's not, I was wrong to write it. You called me "high and mighty" and I bit.

There is an expression "if the shoe fits, wear it". I did not call or direct this to anyone in particular. Obviously you feel the commnet fits you though

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bderick67
No I don't agree with putting a small fish in a huge tank. There is no need for it whatsoever. Not to mention how much harder it is to feed or medicate.

I didn't ask you if you agreed with putting tiny fish in massive tanks, I asked you if you agreed whether the fish should be the last thing bought in a new aro set up or not.

With the info you gave I based my reply. You said nothing of growout tanks. Only that the arowana should be bought last in a set up. So the answer is NO.
As I said

Quote:
"I wouldn't recommend buying a 300 gal tank for a silver either. "

No this is only parts of what you said. You are now chopping your own quotes to modify there meaning.

If a new keeper is going to get one though I advise them to do things in the correct order, and make sure they can afford the minimum "for life" tank you need before you buy the fish.
I agree with you, a small fish should be in a grow out tank before it's placed in the tank it will be spending the rest of it's life in, but I think it would be a good idea to own the final tank first as well. Aros, Asian or otherwise grow quickly and time flies by.

Maybe this is what you meant, but your lack of explanation in this post below can be interpreted in different ways.

I personally don't think a 300 Gal tank is really the minimum for a silver, and i wouldn't recommend buying one either, but the fish should be the last thing to buy in a new arowana set up, be it silver or asian, don't you agree with that?

Again since there is confusion here. No, I do not agree with that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bderick67
What does my black aro have to do with anything? Except for the fact that you just want to get a dig in. How was I not prepared? If you gonna bring up something at least get the facts straight, there was no hole the tank was sealed. I can only speculate as to how it got out.

I didn't want to get a dig in Beders, That's why I wrote

Quote:
"with all due respect"
and

Quote:
"I'm sorry to say it and I mean no disrespect."

Considering my black aro was off topic, your apologies and respect was taken as a sham. There was no need pertaining to the topic at hand. Considering when you brought it up, it was intended to get a rise out of me and not for informational purpose.

I mentioned your aro because it got out, even though you know they tend to do it and you're and experienced keeper of South American arows.
Fact is it got out even though you thought it was locked down.
I am sorry for that, truly. I'm also sorry for the SA aros I see all too often here in small tanks. The small fish that were bought at 7in and the owners are lazy or can't afford to by the minimum tank size they should have done before they bought the fish, or just were plan stupid and crul.
This highlighted in blue is not being judgemental?

Further more I’ve also learnt from your tragic loss and bought 2 stone Chinese lion figures to sit on top of my lid to make it even more heavy than it already is.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Bderick67
Best thing for you is to comment on your experiences, which are few if any when dealing with arowana other then asians.

Now in this thread the OP is inquiring about silver aros, which you have no experience whatsoever.

My experiences with Asians is limited if any. For me Beders it all started here,
http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/fo...d.php?t=127027
Which you contributed to, and I am and was grateful for your input.
As you can see I did exactly what you said below.

Yes, if you notice in that thread, once it was known that you were getting an asian aro. I did not offer any more advise, since my experience with asians is none.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bderick67
Why not just educate and let them make their own decision. Who are you to judge anyone?

Although the above reply was directed at Soden, you must feel it pertains to you
I read the advice and made my own decision.
I don't think I'm judging anyone in a negative manner, unless you think asking the question or agreeing with it. See above in blue
"I wonder how many SA aro owners own the massive tanks, they recommend?"As said before is the shoe fits wear it, this comment has no informational value. By your response to my "High and Mighty" you obviously seem to figure it fits.
As you can see from my first ever "tank size question" it was recommended I buy super size tanks by a lot of posters, until you pointed out "what aro are you buying?"
I’m sorry if I upset you, or caused an argument, but I'm trying to be objective by advising potential aro owners to buy in the correct process. That’s certainly not the fish first.
Just out of curiosity, as an experienced owner of SA arrows what do you think the minimum “for life” footprint is?

My belief is any aro, though I base my Judgement of asians compared to jardini, should be kept in a tank that is to follow.

The length of the tank should be at least 3 times the length of the arowana. The width/depth of the tank should be at least equal to that of the arowana. With large arowana the tank should be at least 24" high.

Silver aros grow fast and will reach the 24" length within their first 2 years on average. So one would need to be able to have a tank to support a 24" fish. The average silvers growth slows after reaching 24", you will have a few years to prepare for what could eventually become a fish near 3 foot long, though 30" in more likely from what I've been able to research.

Considering how much your life can change, regarding residence, school, job, family, taste, or possibly just growing bored with fish keeping. It is senseless to buy the "final tank" before purchasing the fish, unless you are certain there will be no change in your future.

The best any of us can do is to educate not discourage. Someone who is discouraged may just go and do what they want anyway, since they only received discouragement and ridicule now they are also uneducated.

 

[classic-chassis]

My belief is any aro, though I base my Judgement of asians compared to jardini, should be kept in a tank that is to follow.

The length of the tank should be at least 3 times the length of the arowana. The width/depth of the tank should be at least equal to that of the arowana. With large arowana the tank should be at least 24" high.

Silver aros grow fast and will reach the 24" length within their first 2 years on average. So one would need to be able to have a tank to support a 24" fish. The average silvers growth slows after reaching 24", you will have a few years to prepare for what could eventually become a fish near 3 foot long, though 30" in more likely from what I've been able to research.

Considering how much your life can change, regarding residence, school, job, family, taste, or possibly just growing bored with fish keeping. It is senseless to buy the "final tank" before purchasing the fish, unless you are certain there will be no change in your future.

The best any of us can do is to educate not discourage. Someone who is discouraged may just go and do what they want anyway, since they only received discouragement and ridicule now they are also uneducated.

Good advice if I ever read it Bederik67 which begs the question, why didn’t you post that in the first place instead of quips against other posters. Please don't be offended by my shortening of your virtual nick name, I don’t get upset if people call me CC, It’s an internet forum.
I live in Asia, there are standard tanks which are bought often by restaurateurs, hoteliers and amateur hobbyist alike. None of them are big enough to house Jars, RTG’s and defiantly not silvers.
The biggest standard tank I see regularly housing aros, (which are very popular here for obvious reasons.) in about 150gal, the have poor filtration and thin glass.
People buy them anyway and house silvers which cost $20 at most, often with other fish.
Only last weekend I was staying in a hotel where in the lobby was a silver which was in a tank with the length of the tank equal to the length of the fish. Its head was disproportionate to its body, it had gill curl and was slowly dying.
If you can’t be judgmental towards such actions means you condone them.
If you want an aro set up here it has to be made to speck.

Maybe I did offend you which I will once again apologise for, I didn’t mean it to be a personal attack and as you pointed out, the written word can be interpreted in many ways depending on the reader.

I’m quite sure you didn’t mean offence by using the term “quite the high and mighty conversation you’re having”.
At the time of you posting it there were only 2 people posting, so it had to be aimed at both of us or you’d have narrowed it down to, “Quite the high and mighty statements you’re making
Classic-Chassis or sodenoshirayuki !”(I believe this is the posters full forum name, “if the shoe fits”.)
Once again I am sorry if I cause you offence or caused an argument, that was not the intention of the post I made, nor I believe, the intention of the conversation between sodenoshirayuki and I regarding ridiculously massive tanks that would be difficult if not impossible to house in an everyday house.
I think the general vain of the conversation was one of encouragement regarding tank sizes smaller than 300gal up, not discouragement, 280gal being the recommended size by yourself.
If I were to speculate about minimum tank size based on research and reading for silvers I’d agree with you, I’d even speculate you could go a little smaller. But as you pointed out, and if asked I would state, it would be a recommendation based on reading only and what I’ve seen with my own eyes.

I also agree with you regarding how quickly life can change. In the UK the RSPCA came up with a slogan regarding dogs, “A dog is for life not just for Christmas.” This was aimed at irresponsible people buying puppies for their kids as Christmas presents only to get bored with the dog and house them in really poor conditions or kick them out onto the streets to become strays. I believe the same slogan could be tagged on to fish with extended lives, which is another piece of advice you’ve inadvertently brought to point.
Not only should one consider tank size when buying a fish that has a long life span but you should also consider your own future with regards to whether or not you’ll be able to keep the fish in your current position for an extended period of time. If a person is in school and is definately going to move in the foreseeable future then an arowana is the wrong choice of fish to look at keeping.

 

[sodenoshirayuki]

This highlighted in blue is not being judgemental?

I find that more of being common sense. why buy a pet if you cant take care of it? Its that simple. Its not just another toy, its another life. like classic-chassis said, you dont just let it die after you get bored with it. I wouldn't call this "high and might" but instead call this the sensible thing to do.

 

[Bderick67]

Again my replies in red, seems again you have failed to get my name anywhere near correct. Better that maybe you just not include it.

Good advice if I ever read it Bederik67 which begs the question, why didn’t you post that in the first place instead of quips against other posters.

You must have missed post #4. I gave the tank size I would recommend and what he should expect for growth of two small silvers. Tried to point out a time frame and also gave info on the success of keeping silver pairs together. I answer every part of the question he asked.

Please don't be offended by my shortening of your virtual nick name, I don’t get upset if people call me CC, It’s an internet forum.
I live in Asia, there are standard tanks which are bought often by restaurateurs, hoteliers and amateur hobbyist alike. None of them are big enough to house Jars, RTG’s and defiantly not silvers.
The biggest standard tank I see regularly housing aros, (which are very popular here for obvious reasons.) in about 150gal, the have poor filtration and thin glass.
People buy them anyway and house silvers which cost $20 at most, often with other fish.
Only last weekend I was staying in a hotel where in the lobby was a silver which was in a tank with the length of the tank equal to the length of the fish. Its head was disproportionate to its body, it had gill curl and was slowly dying.
If you can’t be judgmental towards such actions means you condone them.

Glad to see your admittence of being judgmental. I just do'nt see where you have the right to lump everyone who doesn't have their silver in a proper sized tank. BTW which am I, lazy, can't afford, stupid or cruel? Since I am currently guilty of keeping silvers in an undersized tank.

If you want an aro set up here it has to be made to speck.

Maybe I did offend you which I will once again apologise for, I didn’t mean it to be a personal attack and as you pointed out, the written word can be interpreted in many ways depending on the reader.

I’m quite sure you didn’t mean offence by using the term “quite the high and mighty conversation you’re having”.
At the time of you posting it there were only 2 people posting, so it had to be aimed at both of us or you’d have narrowed it down to, “Quite the high and mighty statements you’re making
Classic-Chassis or sodenoshirayuki !”(I believe this is the posters full forum name, “if the shoe fits”.)
Once again I am sorry if I cause you offence or caused an argument, that was not the intention of the post I made, nor I believe, the intention of the conversation between sodenoshirayuki and I regarding ridiculously massive tanks that would be difficult if not impossible to house in an everyday house.
I think the general vain of the conversation was one of encouragement regarding tank sizes smaller than 300gal up, not discouragement, 280gal being the recommended size by yourself.

Where did I recommend a 280g? Volume is meaningless without dimensions anyhow
If I were to speculate about minimum tank size based on research and reading for silvers I’d agree with you, I’d even speculate you could go a little smaller. But as you pointed out, and if asked I would state, it would be a recommendation based on reading only and what I’ve seen with my own eyes.

I also agree with you regarding how quickly life can change. In the UK the RSPCA came up with a slogan regarding dogs, “A dog is for life not just for Christmas.” This was aimed at irresponsible people buying puppies for their kids as Christmas presents only to get bored with the dog and house them in really poor conditions or kick them out onto the streets to become strays. I believe the same slogan could be tagged on to fish with extended lives, which is another piece of advice you’ve inadvertently brought to point.
Not only should one consider tank size when buying a fish that has a long life span but you should also consider your own future with regards to whether or not you’ll be able to keep the fish in your current position for an extended period of time. If a person is in school and is definately going to move in the foreseeable future then an arowana is the wrong choice of fish to look at keeping.

Since very little is known of each individual poster the only proper thing to do is provide accurate information. It will be up to them to use the information.

I'm done here

 

[Bderick67]

I find that more of being common sense. why buy a pet if you cant take care of it? Its that simple. Its not just another toy, its another life. like classic-chassis said, you dont just let it die after you get bored with it. I wouldn't call this "high and might" but instead call this the sensible thing to do.

Though we had an agreement. Maybe not, oh well as I said above I'm done.

 

[classic-chassis]

My replies in red, and the least you could do is get my name right. Kind of disrespectful and insulting.



My belief is any aro, though I base my Judgement of asians compared to jardini, should be kept in a tank that is to follow.

The length of the tank should be at least 3 times the length of the arowana. The width/depth of the tank should be at least equal to that of the arowana. With large arowana the tank should be at least 24" high.

Silver aros grow fast and will reach the 24" length within their first 2 years on average. So one would need to be able to have a tank to support a 24" fish. The average silvers growth slows after reaching 24", you will have a few years to prepare for what could eventually become a fish near 3 foot long, though 30" in more likely from what I've been able to research.

Considering how much your life can change, regarding residence, school, job, family, taste, or possibly just growing bored with fish keeping. It is senseless to buy the "final tank" before purchasing the fish, unless you are certain there will be no change in your future.

The best any of us can do is to educate not discourage. Someone who is discouraged may just go and do what they want anyway, since they only received discouragement and ridicule now they are also uneducated.

90inches x 30inches x 24inches, 280gal.

BTW which am I, lazy, can't afford, stupid or cruel?

I would hope none of the above.