Texas agresssion

[Urgula]

I didn't really choose my fish. We told the store the tank size, they sold us a bunch of fish.
It was the classical "pleco is an algae eater".

At some points, my parents decided to change my water and "transfer good bacteria" to my tank (I've always did 90% water change, I still do, my bacteria media does the job, it was always fine, but they "dissaproved"), so all my fish died and Blue and Trash (the pleco) was the only one left. This was done while I was away for a day and against my agreement.

By the way, all their fish died too, it was some kind of sickness. No dropsy, fin rot or anything of that kind. Water paramethers were good.

Now, I'd not put a 30cm pleco and a 25cm Texas in 200L. I've got fish that was adviced for my tank size(I didn't always googled...), they've just grown and "didn't die".

First fish were added all at once, when he was about an inch, so he didn't try to kill anyone.

Blue seemed very bored. My other fish interact (in the 500L), even cichlids. This is why I tried getting him mates.

Yes, I know this was a bit stupid, but I don't really want to re-home the fish, because you never know where they will be put.

The other male texas that I've returned to the store got put with a full grown arowana.
Considering the fact that the female, who's much smaller than him, was bullying him, he's probably dead now.


The situation is "me make stupid, how to make it fix?".

I think the female will be fine, since she's getting to Blue's side pretty often and has no damage. However, the chocolate is pretty interactive and if I wanted to re-home him, I can't ensure he'll be fine.

All fish we get at the store are sick and we must treat them with meds, so if I return the fish to the store, he'll probably catch something and no one will bother medicating him. Meds cost more than the fish is sold for.

Also, american cichlids are not very popular in my towm (africans are tho).

Re-stocking is not an option since I'd need to get rid of Blue. I need to make peace between this dudes.


Basically, I need to re-train a cichlid, like agressive dogs get a rehab. How to do so?

I plan to let them fully grow and make blue live in a "bucket" for a week/month, then re-introduce him to the tank. Will that work? How long of memory to they have? Has anyone "re-trained" adult cichlids?


PS: I know how large they grow, mine is 25cm/10inch. This is why I didn't get him small tank mates. He'd just eat them.

 

[Urgula]

Does it help, if I get a separator through which Blue can't see anything? This way he things he's tank got smaller and when I remove it, it won't be his territory any more?

 

[Gourami Swami]

Honestly man, I think you are trying to do the impossible. Cichlids are not really domesticated animals like dogs which can be trained to that extent. They can certainly develop pavlovian behavioral tendencies and I believe they are fairly smart, but they still have much of their wild instincts intact, hence the territorial aggression. I don't think there is any way your going to get blue to want to share that small tank. Maybe if you had an exceptionally passive texas cichlid it would work, but he has shown he is not exceptionally passive at all.
My advice- get rid of the other fish and keep blue since you are attached to him. Not only is the aggression an issue, but I guarantee you that with 2 texas, a pleco, and a chocolate, your water quality is going to be very poor unless you change most of the water every day. Not to mention, this is really not even enough swimming room in my opinion for the one texas. This is most likely why he seems bored, cichlids kept in tanks which are too small often end up sitting all day, and their owners wonder why.
Do the right thing for the fish. They are pets, at the end of the day their welfare needs to be the #1 priority.

 

[Urgula]

Well... I think that makes sense. Water quality is actually fine with weekly maintenance. However, the fish are not fully grown and weekly maintenance is too much.

I've poked bigger holes in the separator, so the female can get in and out easier (she really likes "extreme tourism" and has developed teleportation skills...), he seems to be ok with her.

Blue and chocolate don't really swim around their sides of the tank. They like to stare at each other through the holes and pretty much "hang" in front of each other without moving.
Where one goes, the other does too (on their side of the fence).

I think the territorial ******* is not Blue only, but Chocolate also... this is why the female is not getting killed when she's on Blues side, but Chocolate is.

I'll put Chocolate in a bucket on the next maintenance and remove the separator to see if Blue will try to kill the female. If not, I'll re-home chocolate and keep the pair.

Also, Blue shows stripes when the female is there.
Previously, he changed colors, becoming more yellowish or reddish on his "butt half" (where he shows stripes now), but that was when he saw people he didn't know or was not used to.

Are the stripes a breeding behavior or something? Never saw stripes on him after he got his adult coloration.
He does not go stripey when the separator is out and he's in berserk mode.

 

[Gourami Swami]

Stripes on the back half of a texas cichlid are common in breeding dress, along with color change. They tend to get white-ish on half their body. He may be ready to mate. Stripes or "bars" all over the fish look a little different, are usually related to stress.
The fish are staring at each other through the divider because they see an invader on their territory, and want to kill it. I have kept aggressive cichlids in the same tank with a divider before temporarily, and always ended up feeling bad for the fish when they would sit there all day wanting to fight.
I would say you definitely should not keep all these fish together in that tank. I see you mentioned that weekly maintenance is too much? When these fish are large I would consider twice-a-week the minimum water change schedule, even for just the two texas. The tank really isn't enough water volume for even one 10-12" cichlid, with two living in there your will see your water will turn to urine very fast. Not trying to be a downer here, just trying to help you understand that this is not a great situation, and if you are going to stick with it, you will have to do a little more work than you would on an appropriately sized tank to keep the fish healthy.

 

[duanes]

Here are some spawning color shots of carpintus.

The female usually gets the darker colors first, the male sometimes doesn't develop them until after eggs are put down, and fry hatch, below female first.

If they are in a spawning mode, they will kill any other cichlid in the tank, and "maybe" the pleco, although at night the place may eat the cichlid eggs while the parents are sleeping.

Even after spawning, if the tank is too small, the male may kill the female, and eat the eggs himself.

 

[Urgula]

Here are some spawning color shots of carpintus.

The female usually gets the darker colors first, the male sometimes doesn't develop them until after eggs are put down, and fry hatch, below female first.

If they are in a spawning mode, they will kill any other cichlid in the tank, and "maybe" the pleco, although at night the place may eat the cichlid eggs while the parents are sleeping.

Even after spawning, if the tank is too small, the male may kill the female, and eat the eggs himself.

That's exactly the pattern that he gets. The only difference, is that he's bright blue, not white.
The female gets almost black.

The female didn't really loose the baby coloration yet (when they've got a black spot on the side and are stripey). She's mostly looks like blue, but still has the black spot on the side.

I'm not too worried about the pleco. Blue already went berserk on the pleco and he didn't care. Pleco is also the fight stopper in the tank, he's larger than Blue.
When I had the other texas male in and Blue would attack, he would swim between them. Not sure if I'm "humanising" the fish, but it really looked like it was intentional.

However, as Gourami Swami told, I should not keep all those fish in t hat tank, because water quality.

I'll probably re-home chocolate... I'm tempted to get another 50gal+ , but I got no space.
Will see.


Another question, did anyone test this. Does it work?
https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B000255PGC/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o08_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I've got a good amount of those in both of my 5Gal betta tanks and I have the impression it works. But I don't know if that's true or the placebo effect.

Basically, if I hook another canister on the big tank, filled with de-nitrates, will it keep water more or less good? Normally, you have to watch amonia, nitrite and nitrate, so technically, if I remove the nitrates efficiently, water quality would be ok with that volume?

The canister I've got right now is fluval 306.

 

[Gourami Swami]

I have not tried that product, but I am always skeptical of any products that claim to remove nitrate, nitrite, ammonia. Unless the water is removed from the tank, the chemicals cannot be removed, only neutralized or converted into a less toxic substance. And there are other chemicals and hormones in fish urine, which this product would do nothing for.
If you are going to get another tank, don't get another 50 gallon, it is really not large enough for any one of these fish. The reason is not only water quality, also quality of life. These fish need more room to swim, you will see when the texas is large, big fish in small tanks tend to just sit there in my experience. You said in a previous post that you have these fish in the tank because you were given misinformation by the pet store. Now you are educated enough to know better. To keep the chocolate alone, I would say 75 gallon minimum. With other cichlids, you are going to want something larger than that.

 

[Urgula]

If you are going to get another tank, don't get another 50 gallon, it is really not large enough for any one of these fish.

I won't, I've wrote 50+ meaning bigger than my current aquarium.
However, after house inspection, there's no really space where I'll see the fish and where it will fit.

There's a 500L in my house, which is not mine. It has 1 parrot, angels, gouramins ("regular" ones, not the monster gouramis) and some small cichlids.

Will Chocolate kill everything there?

https://instagram.fymy1-2.fna.fbcdn...248_501135563592556_1981671350296641536_n.jpg

 

[Gourami Swami]

I won't, I've wrote 50+ meaning bigger than my current aquarium.
However, after house inspection, there's no really space where I'll see the fish and where it will fit.

There's a 500L in my house, which is not mine. It has 1 parrot, angels, gouramins ("regular" ones, not the monster gouramis) and some small cichlids.

Will Chocolate kill everything there?

https://instagram.fymy1-2.fna.fbcdn...248_501135563592556_1981671350296641536_n.jpg

It might not, chocolates are not usually super aggressive from what I've heard. But I think some people here have also mentioned having very mean ones. I probably wouldn't try it with someone else's tank