The Hypocrite thread mbu

[Fat Homer]

JP ........ with regards to what RTR has stated, you might want to actually read the original version in full. That post is where the 1,000 gallon minimum originated back in 2005.

http://www.**************.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=150

Jen's post in this thread was an amended or updated version, where RTR now feels a 10ft long tank is required, not 8ft as stated back in 2005.

Of course 500-600 gallons is subjective, I thought that in this discussion it was safe to assume that meant a minimum of an 8x3 footprint. Apparently not.

Personally I wouldn't keep an adult mbu in anything less than a tank with an 8x4 footprint, but that's just me.




Wow, just wow. So in your world anyone that utilizes a system where more than 50% water changes are performed on a weekly basis, concludes that their housing & filtration are inadequate? I'm sure that the thousands of commercial operations utilizing modern technology would find that to be a rather amusing point of view. Utilizing modern technology has nothing to do with inadequacies, and everything to do with simplification, while at the same time providing a system where far more optimum water conditions can be offered than simply performing a once a week water change, no matter how large that water change might be. Welcome to the 21st century.


To MasterB ......



Of course your mbu seems to be comfortable to you, because you have never kept this fish in anything larger to see just how big of a difference a large tank will make. To think that in some way you are providing adequate care for a 23" mbu, by keeping it in a 180 tank that measures 24" wide, is beyond ignorant. Your logic of thinking that modern filtration (canisters & HOB filters) is going to add a big plus to the equation also shows how little you understand about water quality, and bio load.
I'm glad to read that you have plans on moving this fish into larger quarters, hopefully for your mbu that will be sooner than later.

Please don't that as a personal attack, because it isn't, but comments like the ones you just made are precisely why some people feel they can properly house an adult mbu when in many cases they can't, and never will. I'm sure there are tens of thousands of people who feel that their full grown red devil, oscar, etc, are very comfortable in their 40 gallon tank, too.

All that type of behaviour from the fish is demonstrating is how resilient many species of fish are. Personally that's not something that I would be boasting about. It's exactly those types of comments that cause Jen to chime in on many of these mbu discussions, and with good reason.

My reason for posting in this discussion was simply to agree that IMO a 1,000 gallon minimum for a single mbu is overkill, but I most certainly agree with Jen that there are scores of people who buy these magnificent creatures with absolutely no idea what they are getting into.

And on that note I commend PufferPunk for her continuous effort in attempting to educate fellow hobbyists about some of the basic requirements for this species of puffer, and many others.

I have to admit at first when i was reading your posts i wasn't sure where you were coming from... But after reading some of your latest posts i have to commend you on probably being one of the most neutral members arguing in this thread... looking at it from both sides...

Either way, i have to say i'm glad i gave up arguing in this thread a long time ago as once again it shows that no matter what people say, professional or not, people will listen to only what they want to hear most of the time...

BTW, also wanted to say love the comment about flushing the toilet for the fish...

 

[MyGiants]

Probably one of the wost things you can do to stress out a fish is constant pH shock with fluctuating that parameter up & down like that. Very important to have a steady pH for your fish.

My ph fluctuates .7 not much. A water change can fluctuate your ph that amount.

 

[Pufferpunk]

Not if you do regular, large weekly WC. I can guarantee you, my tank's water is exactly the same pH as my tap.

 

[MyGiants]

There's a lot more to high quality water parameters than simply testing for nitrates. Phosphates, pheromones, and various dissolved organic compounds can build up in a tank over time. Minerals & trace elements also become depleted over time, so it's not just what's being added to the bio load, it's what's being lost to the environment as well. The fact that you have to add baking soda every couple of weeks to stabilize your pH is due to the acidic compounds that are building up between your water changes.


I think that I've said about all there is for me to say on this subject, best of luck with your fish everyone.

Ph is always going down in everyones tank. The buildup thats in my sump yes is driving my ph down. This happens in every tank. I have a electronic ph monitor so I can see in real time what my ph is doing. I can say most people don't have ph monitoring and don't really know how much there ph is fluctuating. It goes up at night when lights are out. Then comes down a little during the day. I'll keep doing what I'm doing not going to mess around with what is working in my tank. I do clean my canisters when I see flow drop. Not all at the same time of course.
The skeptics in this thread who will never be convinced that MBU cannot live comfortably in less then 800g can just sit and watch us who are actually doing it.
There really isn't more to discuss its all been covered pretty much.

 

[Pufferpunk]

Maybe not 800g but I don't see anyone approving of 180g.

 

[MyGiants]

Not if you do regular, large weekly WC. I can guarantee you, my tank's water is exactly the same pH as my tap.

You do weekly cause you want to. Your fish doesn't need weekly WC.

 

[DarioMbu]

They say people dont know what they are getting into when buying a mbu puffer lol , I have a 15 inch mbu with a few 2inch clown loaches and an NGT on a 90 gallon he seems pertty happy since i bought it wich was 3 years ago.

 

[MyGiants]

What makes RTR an expert before he printed his article. How about MasterB what if he writes his finding on keeping his 23" MBU in a 180 with success. Will his article become the new updated care on keeping MBU's

 

[Pufferpunk]

You might want to read RTR's other articles. In the 50 years he's been a research scientist & in the hobby, he has written, published & lectured on the subject. I also have published articles in Tropical Fish Hobbyist, FAMA, WetWebMedia (& was on their Crew giving puffer advice for 4 years) & wrote all the pufferfish profiles for the TFH book: The Encyclopedia of Tropical Aquarium Fishes.

 

[MyGiants]

You might want to read RTR's other articles. In the 50 years he's been a research scientist & in the hobby, he has written, published & lectured on the subject.

Was he an expert on keeping MBU before he kept his one. Each fish is not the same. Its good general information maybe a guide for its time. I think its been proven since that MBU can live long comfortable lives in less then 1000g.