The Hypocrite thread mbu

younggalaxy

Feeder Fish
MFK Member
Feb 13, 2012
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The issue is that a good percentage of peope rattling the "your tank is not big enough" saber actually have no firsthand experience with Mbu puffers and are just quoting what some self-proclaimed "expert" on the internet said.

I would venture a guess that those among us who have kept Mbu succesfully for some time spend more time enjoying our fish than running around the internet, trying to tell people they are wrong. At least that's how I feel.

Just my 2-cents.
I whole-heartedly agree with you. The practice of doling out advices with 0 experience in the subject matter is a huge problem in online forums. What they're doing is parroting what they've read/heard from others, yet they're passing out this secondary information as if it was the most complete and accurate source.

People who self-righteously seek the position of being 'right' rather than delving in the progressive learning that's at stake, especially when others can exemplify their success, is another problem around these parts. It's just a shame to see the formulation of one's ego get in the way of our pool of knowledge.
 

Jenerik

Gambusia
MFK Member
Apr 15, 2012
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The thing is, noboby wants to hear that everything is OK. Instead, they want to tell you it will be a crisis/disaster/etc., because that makes them feel important and relevant. For example, I just took this photo while watching TV in the living room...



There he is, doing pretty much the same thing he does every day, and like he has done for the past 3&1/2 years. To be totally honest, the tank is long overdue for a water change, I haven't scrubbed the algae in a while, need to trim the plants and vacuum the gravel, etc. I could be better about the water changes but life has just been really busy for us lately so mostly, I just top off the tank when it needs it, change the pads in the wet/dry, and feed the guys every day. And guess what? He is as healthy as ever. So, if someone asks me if Mbu are easy to keep, I say, "Sure, just make sure you have a big enough tank, can get the right kind of food, be selective with the tankmates, and they do great". But, nobody wants to hear that because while it might be true, it is boring. And things which are boring don't rally people to respond.

Now, say, for example, some "scientist" or "mentor" gets asked the same question, but they respond with a strongly cautionary statement that you must have a 1,000-gallon aquarium, some sort of filtration system that sounds like belongs in a sewage treatment plant, and that it will be nearly impossible to keep water quality up for these guys, "or else", the listener says, "Whoa, you are really an expert! Thanks so much for loking out for me and for the fish. I'm going to listen to you from now, on!" And presto, they now have power over someone because human beings make decisions based upon emotion and then invent rationale to defend those decisions.

So, while I might tell someone that Mbu, in my experience, are one of the easier fish I have kept (keeping in mind that I have the space and food for him...) that is neither exciting nor controversial, so it does not compel people to listen. But the minute you create emotion, for example, by taking a cautionary tone with every statement or invoking the "pet's best interest" in replies, you are now forcing the listener to either submit or to leave the conversation. "It's not about me, it's about the fish/ I'm a scientist, so know more than you/ The mentor said it so it must be true". This is actually a pretty common thing in internet forums, across the board.

Getting back to the Mbu, I just measured ours and he is 26"-27" long. He eats 3-4 adult crayfish per day and his growth appears to have slowed down during the last year or so. This leads me to believe that he is at or very near adult size. Obviously, he will continue to grow throughout his life but at a greatly reduced rate. I can tell you that the size tank we have him in, 72" x 36" seems to me like pretty much the minimum footprint for an adult of this species. Obviously, bigger is better but they WILL do fine in a 300-gallon of this dimension.

In regards to filtration, I have seen zero indication that this species is anywhere near the Godzilla-type bio-load that often gets tossed around. Yes, they poop like a dog and I just net those out but honestly, the last time I did a water change was a month ago and aside from some yellowing of the water, the fish are doing great. I do want to point out that we have a pretty good population of Pothos and Peace Lilly growing out the top the tank, which I am sure is helping with the water quality. I recommend the "plant filtration"-thing to anyone who is keeping big fish or heavily stocked tanks. Other than that, just a wet/dry sump of about 50 gallons volume and a canister filter which I use for activated carbon. Basically, same type of setup you would use for any 300-gallon tank full of fish.

Anyway, just my observations in keeping this guy.
 

toehead11183

Fire Eel
MFK Member
Dec 4, 2006
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Very well said and the same can be applied to every other portion of this forum

Sent from my X500 using MonsterAquariaNetwork App
 

ShadowBass

Feeder Fish
MFK Member
Jan 13, 2007
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The only absolutely 100% factual information we know about pretty much any fish, puffers or not, is that water quality should be kept as pristine as possible.

The size of the tank to keep a fish happy is fairly subjective. We anthropomorphize and for the most part none of us really know if a fish is happy. IMO, a fish is happy when it has plenty of food and feels secure. In the wild I'd say many fish don't meet that criteria because their whole life is spent avoiding predators and trying to get enough nutrition. I don't suggest putting a fish in a tank where it can't even turn around, but no doubt many fish don't need a pond or lake to feel secure and get enough exercise, and some are happy simply laying in one spot no matter what size the tank.

Nor should bioload strictly determine the size of the tank - but filtration, your ability to do adequate water changes, and how much you will realistically clean and maintain your filters. It doesn't matter if your fish is in 1000g tank if you're never going to do a water change and let detritus build up in your filtration system. Long term you'll be exactly where you would have been with a 180g tank doing more water changes more often because you found maintenance easier.

The whole more bioload = needs certain size tank is something parroted to beginners because they often have inadequate filtration, maintenance, and water change schedules.
An experiecned successful fishkeeper KNOWS that a bigger tank isn't a magical fix for bioload, and a smaller tank isn't automatically a polluted sewer, nor do we determine what size tank we buy depending on how "messy" our fish are. There is no one tank perfect for an estimated bioload based on the size and species of the fish because there are too many factors that change from fishkeeper to fishkeeper; feeding frequency and amount, type of food, etc.
You must determine based on your subjective view on what your fish needs according to size and energy level, your filtration setup, and your realistic ability to do sufficient water changes and maintenance for the amount of water vs the size, diet, and feeding amount/schedule for your fish.

This argument could go on and on forever, but there are too many factors depending on individual fish and individual owner.
 
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Jenerik

Gambusia
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Apr 15, 2012
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I think one of the issues is that lots of people want either a "yes" or a "no" answer to something and if the answer they are given involves having to quantify something or requiring them to ask questions of themselves, then they are lost. "No, you can't keep an Mbu in anything less than a 1,000-gallon", is easier to swallow for some people than, "Yes, you can keep one in less than a 1,000-gallon tank but there are other conditions, such as water quality, diet, and tank mates, that will have as much to do with your success as the actual tank size".

Now, you and I might know that Answer-B is the totally viable but getting back to what I was trying to say earlier, Answer-B also requires you to question yourself and more significantly, invites OTHERS to question you. And that makes some people uncomfortable.
 

younggalaxy

Feeder Fish
MFK Member
Feb 13, 2012
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Canada
You must determine based on your subjective view on what your fish needs according to size and energy level, your filtration setup, and your realistic ability to do sufficient water changes and maintenance for the amount of water vs the size, diet, and feeding amount/schedule for your fish.
Couldn't have said it better myself..

I think one of the issues is that lots of people want either a "yes" or a "no" answer to something and if the answer they are given involves having to quantify something or requiring them to ask questions of themselves, then they are lost. "No, you can't keep an Mbu in anything less than a 1,000-gallon", is easier to swallow for some people than, "Yes, you can keep one in less than a 1,000-gallon tank but there are other conditions, such as water quality, diet, and tank mates, that will have as much to do with your success as the actual tank size".

Now, you and I might know that Answer-B is the totally viable but getting back to what I was trying to say earlier, Answer-B also requires you to question yourself and more significantly, invites OTHERS to question you. And that makes some people uncomfortable.
Bigger tanks will almost always provide better homes for your fish as an end result. The 1000G suggestion not a bad one at all, but after all, it is merely a suggestion from one source from what I understand. I am all for it if someone wants to be deferential to a long-time keeper, or an expert, but a problem occurs when people try to present this suggestion as a scientific fact. Consequently, people start to build an argumentative stance on this altruistic view and otherwise successful keepers are relegated to incompetency - solely because they think it's going against the grain.

Such a wrong attitude to be equipped with in a field where more immediate and hands-on successes are needed.
 
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Jenerik

Gambusia
MFK Member
Apr 15, 2012
241
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Out of curiosity, who has the biggest Mbu out there? I am a pretty good judge of size on these guys and from the many pics and videos I have seen online, don't know that there are any I would put at greater than 30". Many around the 20"+ range but that seems to be the largest I have seen. Any thoughts on this?
 
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