The Law of Supply & Demand doesnt work!!

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Dan Feller;1852040; said:
Any solution that does not include reducing oil consumption is a short-term fix at best.
Amen. All those suggesting that the US stops exporting oil and starts drilling more of its own are only going to delay the problem. Maybe one of the reasons they haven't done that yet is because of the higher costs of drilling in places like Alaska, so you might not end up with cheaper fuel anyway. Its going to happen sooner or later, why don't we start looking for other solutions now instead of exploiting every last resource...

Hawkfish3.0;1851893; said:
Anyway, it takes approximately 6 weeks for crude prices to translate to prices at the pump. That's why it's not dropping right this second.
Doesn't seem to happen when the barrel price goes up! :irked:

jcardona1;1852070; said:
i live about 45 miles away from work.
Well, that's your choice isn't it? No one forced you to live so far away from your job. I only live 45 METRES from my work, takes me two minutes to walk from door-to-door if I have to stop and unlock the gate. GF takes 20 minutes to drive about 18km's to her work, we wouldn't live here if it took any longer. If you're sick of spending so much money on gas (not to mention the amount of time you waste) why not look at living a bit closer to your job?

Here in little old Auckland, NZ, the prices are hitting hard because we're such a spread-out city with minimal public transport and a strong reliance on cars. Peoples attitudes are slowly changing, more is being done to improve public transport, they're even going to electrify the trains over the next two years despite being threatened with black-outs this winter as the hydro lakes are very low...
 
Ya gas prices blow here in Canada, my neon that used to take $30 tops to fill the tank now costs me $55 to fill. The worst of it all is I live in the country so theres no alternative like a bus system and I have to pay the prices. And no I would never move back to the city just to save money on gas, any money I did save on gas would just get spent on the higher housing cost that goes with living in the city.
The Canadian airlines are even raising their fairs with $100 or more fuel surcharge to compensate for the cost of fuel.
 
David R;1852291; said:
Amen. All those suggesting that the US stops exporting oil and starts drilling more of its own are only going to delay the problem. Maybe one of the reasons they haven't done that yet is because of the higher costs of drilling in places like Alaska, so you might not end up with cheaper fuel anyway. Its going to happen sooner or later, why don't we start looking for other solutions now instead of exploiting every last resource...
I think that it would actually show commitment to the issue if we said "we're not afraid to use our own, because we know we won't need it in the future" plus, just because it doesn't solve the problem right now doesn't mean we shouldn't do it. As long as we are continuing to strive for new forms of fuel, why does it matter if we use our own in the mean time? In fact if it drives down cost (which it will), I think we should do it.
Also, Alaska is not the only place where we have oil that we can drill for...
 
Uh, we did see it coming.
Oil companies have been saying since the '70s they hit peak oil long ago. (Peak oil means that while they might know where it is, it costs more to get it than it returns. So if they have gotten all the "easy" oil, production has peaked. Because there is no more to increase supply. Even if there are known deep sea fields etc. it will stay there until the profit ratio changes. Scientist might say there is plenty of oil left in the world. That does not mean any company will dig it up and hand it to me, not cheaply. And you can bet the last of it will be going to the military for population control, not to me. And not to the trucks that bring me my food.)
In what 1995 1996? The president of Shell Oil released a report saying they had no new significant fields and didn't expect to find any, ever.
We don't like to hear what they are saying. Investors don't want to hear it.
Would you invest in Shell when they are telling the truth. Or invest in the competition who is telling you what you want to hear?
How long would it take for Shell to shut up and tow the line to get investment back? (Which they did.)
Would the public vote for a leader who says "Hey buddy, we're screwed." or one that says "Relax man! It's A-OK."
Humans don't react to warnings. They react to pain. Now that it's too late for warnings and the pain is here we will change. Sure it would have been better to do it when we still had the resources to ease the pain. But we don't do things that way.
Is it possible that our leaders know exactly what they are doing? (I doubt it!) Are they allowing the price of gas to climb artificially so we will be more inclined to change before it is truly too late?
If they said "Listen up! We will keep gas cheap until 2025. But that's it. The world will run out of gas in the summer of 2025. And civilization as we know it will stop. So get your act together now." Would we? No! We would drive our cheap gasoline cars until the summer of 2025. And when the pumps went dry we'd say "WTF?"
Most of the world including myself and half of the US population do believe that the U.S.A is in Iraq to control the oil supply. There simply is no other logical explanation. But I'm ok with that. That's how life works. In all of human history it has always been that the guy with the biggest gun controls the resources. I see no reason to now label the USA as evil or selfish when all of humanity has been doing the same thing since the beginning. In fact the USA would be completely insane to not try and guarantee as much supply as it can for as long as it can. Especially in the face of intense growing competition from China.
This in no way diminishes or insults the efforts of the troops on the ground. They are defending their country and civilization. Their way of life. There is no shame in that.
Even if politicians MUST lie. Because the public does not want to hear the truth.
But what might be done to acquire oil supply is only a band aid. When we are truly starving I have no doubt environmental concerns will be brushed aside and we will drill in protected areas including Antarctica. Where for decades all the super powers have maintained giant "research" facilities. Some of which are big enough to house thousands of "researchers" who research nothing more than maintaining the facility until it is time to drill.
So good. There is another decade or two. But the end will come.
And remember Saudi Arabia refuses to tell the world how much they have left. They say lots. They offer no proof. They might run dry tomorrow.
All of the solutions to maintaining our lifestyle as is are limited or ludicrous.
We must also accept that we simply have no real need to drive so much. Why is there not a push to build high density housing in industrial areas so tens of thousand of people don't have to commute from the burbs? Why do we all need a cookie cutter house with a cookie cutter lawn soaking up water, needing more roads and sidewalks? Using more agricultural land and municipal resources and driving up taxes?
Why is there not a neighborhood garden on top of every apartment building so we don't have to ship vegetables from half a world away? I work in a food warehouse in Alberta. This "fresh" produce comes from South America (Mexico, Brazil, Chile, Argentina) China and California. Pork from American feed lots.
Until we change how we burn our resources we will burn them until there is nothing left.
But this is a good thing. The change will be difficult. But we will do it or die.
Generations after us and the planet as a whole will be better off. Hopefully they remember the catastrophe that is about to hit us, and care for the planet better than we did.
The good news is we will be healthier pedaling our bicycles to work.

What do you think of this?
http://www.kawasaki.ca/home.php?l=en&mpl=7
I think it is perfect for city use.
We won't need air bags when there are no more SUVs.
My 4x4 has been parked for a year.
I only use it when the snow is too deep for my 55mpg dirt bike.
 
For the record I know there are no seals in Florida...

Ive read several times that the profit margin/unit that gas companies make is very very low compared to other companies. Most LFS mark up their fish 300%...I dont hear any *****ing and crying.

Its just the the oil companies happen to have a product that is highly in demand so of course they are making money. What is wrong with that?

Say the next big source of energy are donkey farts, once everyone is dependant on donkey farts and the "donkey fart companies" are making good money, you are still going to have people complain about how much money they are making.

Drilling in America will create many many new American jobs, lower the price of oil for Americans, and give less money to people that hate America. Yes we need and we will get away from oil, but the time isnt now. The time will come when our pocketbooks decide for it to come.

BTW, Im surprised no one has mentioned coal. Its a good source of cheap energy that is abundant in America...again it boils down to protecting the damn seals instead of American families...
 
Lets just hope they do not decide to start mining hydrocarbons.....Solar is obviously the way we need to go...
 
Sure coal is good. And nuclear.
Where do you think the power for electric/hydrogen cars is going to come from?
These are really coal cars.
They are black not green.
Not that there is anything wrong with that.
And I agree there is nothing wrong with oil companies making huge profits.
It's called business.
They have no moral obligation to supply us cheaply so we can continue to piss it away.
BTW a surprising percentage of what I am paying at the pump is Govt taxes. Like around 30%. Some of which is tax on an amount that has already been taxed. And taxed.
I can't blame Shell for that.
 
jcardona1;1851608; said:
I dont get it. Oil just fell to $122 from $135 a few days ago. yet gas prices around me jumped up by over $0.20 in the past 4 days. I'm now paying $4.39/gallon for regular lawnmower unleaded.

wtf!?!?!? is there no end in sight!?!? :irked: :irked: :irked: :irked: :irked: :irked:

http://money.cnn.com/2008/06/04/markets/oil_eia/index.htm?cnn=yes

Has nothing to do with the actual supply and everything to do with us controlling their oil.... And the fact that the highest priced areas in the world right now are completely dependent on oil ;)


Common logic... Once a company sees the consumers will pay very readily a certain price... They DO NOT lower it.. Why would they.... The price in Venezuela hasn't changed in years!! Still below 0.20 per gallon... That has to tell you something... And the price per barrel has doubled int he past couple years... YET some countries haven't went up even a few cents per gallon ;)

The fine print isn't at the surface ... Look below it. You will see very clearly why Gas is going up... And will continue to do so the more control we have over their oil..... ;) Infact the filling station managers around here stated that they were told that before the end of the year we can easily expect to see 5.00 + per gallon in the States..

Highest taxed countries right now you will notice are the countries that have troop and a big hand in the war in Iraq. Should be starting to make sense by now.

Supply as a surface point has no real effect on the demand.. BUT you will also notice.. That just because the price of a barrel drops does not mean the fossil fuel quantity of the earth has raised ;) Quite the contrary.. We are using it faster every day.. HENCE supply is Shrinking.. And Demand is raising ;) Look outside the box :D IT is more grim. :(
 
All these suggestions of walking, biking, skating, moving closer and teleporting to work are great and all, but thats easier said than done and i dont see it happening. sad part is that automobiles and gasoline have become such a big part of modern day life to the point that we are 100% dependant on them.

true, we can cry and moan all we want about the gas prices but the fact is that increases gas prices will have very little effect, if any, on how much gas we consume since we are so gas-dependant.

as i mentioned earlier, i think the answer is to drill for oil locally. yeah its a short term fix but so what? its a fix. america has acknowledged that something needs to be done in order to reduce our dependancy off gas and we are working on it.

but that is going to take time. it will be several years. who knows, maybe 10 years. maybe 15, or 20. we are already working on alternative methods for a long term solution. what we need now is a short term solution to ensure american families dont starve becaues of high gas/food prices.

damn seals
 
Did China ever actually start slant drilling into our reserves off Florida? I see alot of articles from a few years ago where there was talk that they were going to start doing that. If they did and we did nothing to stop them, and didnt start drilling there ourselves due to enviromental issues and stuff, i'm gonna go club a baby seal outta spite.

Oh, i would love to ride my skateboard to work everyday, but 10 miles thru the hills wouldnt be much fun (well, downhill would, uphill wouldnt). and where am i supposed to put my daughter before i drop her off at day care? she is a little too big to fit in a backpack these days. I could move a little closer to work, but then i am in a bad neighboorhood and would rather have my kids live in a safe place.
 
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