The real BATMAN

[DavidW]

I assume your avatar is a picture of your own two dogs?

If one of your dogs for some reason had 3 legs - you'd obviously euthanise it since it was at such a disadvantage?

If it was born that way yes I would, in a New York Minute, and so would any responsible dog breeder. Its already impossible to find homes for all the perfectly healthy dogs out there. I also do not equate dogs with fish in this regard. Do you humanely euthanize your dog ( amid much tears, as I recently had to with my English Setter in my avatar) when he/she gets very old and in bad health? Do you also have a problem culling wild deer when they become a pest issue? ( rays re considered a pest in the Amazon) Do you condone hunting ( US style) , where the best are taken? culling wolves from helicopters in Alaska? It all gets kinda grey doesn't it.? Sometimes it is necessary , sometimes not, but if you cannot support killing an obviously defective fish then a logical moral extension of that would seem to be that you are especially unable to support culling healthy animals for purposes other than food.

in domestic/captive situations, does natural selection really come into the equation?

Depends upon your personal definition of 'natural'
Selection is def at work. Selectively breeding for a negative trait is imo foolish. Culling animals with defects for science would provide insight.

 

[dragogreen]

Oh wow thats a werid pup, in a way it looks cool but its not normal which is sad

 

[Gr8KarmaSF]

Its sacrifice for this purpose would serve our knowledge a lot better than its shortened life in a tank.

Why do you assume it would be shortened?

Culling animals with defects for science would provide insight.

Does culling really need to take place for insight? Cant genetic testing be had while keeping it alive?

 

[nubz]

thats actually pretty cool!

 

[anth.payne]

Culling animals with defects for science would provide insight.

As previously said - there is no reason to cull to carry out scietific investigation. Surely the same scientific investigation can be carried out when it dies of natural causes.

In fact this may give additional insight when taking into account its cause of death...

 

[dingoofus]

Do ya reckon this defect is how the mantaray evolved?

 

[Ophiuchi]

well i think its cute, like it has little arms and hugs the ground, it looks less alien to me than normal rays, i never really considered getting a ray untill i saw batman rays and i dont think they're inferior in any way exept for the fact that they're so delicate (and even that is endearing), i would love to have one if only i have the money to keep it healthy and happy. paying extra for a fish that special makes complete sense to me no reason to kill it, even if youre coming at it from a logical buisness perspective, lots of people must love them, sell it! to somebody like a grown up me with monies!

 

[Ophiuchi]

Do ya reckon this defect is how the mantaray evolved?

i was wondering about that too it's certainly something to think about, i don't know much about ray evolution though, but i'm sure someone else on here does!

*edit*
looked it up and apparently rays are like sharks in that they have remained relatively unchanged since the cretaceous. in fact they're related, but i cant find any info on rays before the cretaceous, which i find interesting in and of itself whether or not it has anything to do with the way batman rays were formed.

 

[DavidW]

Why do you assume it would be shortened?

Quite a lot of batman rays born but none seem to live longer than about a year

Does culling really need to take place for insight? Cant genetic testing be had while keeping it alive?

This defect is not genetic, and even if it were, at this time ( mitochondrial) DNA testing is not accurate enough even to distinguish if all potamotrygon are one species or many, and the ray genome has not been mapped.
I am talking about counting teeth, looking at its internal organs, liver, kidneys etc and comparing them to other healthy animals that have been sacrificed....can;t be done with a live animal.
Defects are often accompanied by other less easily seen defects or problems.

 

[DavidW]

As previously said - there is no reason to cull to carry out scietific investigation. Surely the same scientific investigation can be carried out when it dies of natural causes.

In fact this may give additional insight when taking into account its cause of death...

most of the time people don;t even know why their normal healthy rays die, so really there is no chance of knowing what " natural" causes are.
So you wait until it dies in your tank. How will you know if its defect killed it or if crappy husbandry killed it? This is why it would have to be sacrificed while still relatively healthy and alive, to eliminate unknowns from the inquiry.
I am sure if GR8 acquires the ray it will have a good home, and its life span will maybe provide a little insight into longevity of this defect.


If this ray had a zero$$ value we wouldn't even be having this discussion, the ray would be dead already, contributing to our body of knowledge