calioutlaw1a;4778261; said:
Ok, when I move my motoro, aro, 3 green terrors and 2 oscars from my 150 to my 240 next month, I'll do that and throw new media in the sump
The Reason for cycling a tank is to build BB for the Bio Load...
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Ok, when I move my motoro, aro, 3 green terrors and 2 oscars from my 150 to my 240 next month, I'll do that and throw new media in the sump
Myarbro;4778180; said:I still do not understand why people try and make cycling their tank more difficult than it has to be. It is not rocket science... It is a fairly simple process to understand. I am not trying to bash, but it makes me chuckle seeing all of these elaborate ways people go about doing it.
It is easy... I have used this method with all of my tanks since I discovered the product and never had gasping, stressed, or dead fish.
1. Add water
2. Treat water
3. Add stock
4. Use SeaChem's Stability and follow directions to a "T"
If you really don't trust Stability, just give it a shot with a a 10 gallon and some 10 cent goldfish. If you refuse to try it, then just dose with pure ammonia, and add stock weeks later when your water parameters are good.
Seriously guys... not that complicated.
You have a very good point. Theres many different ways to establish your filter media. Everyone uses different methods. I think the OP was looking for a little more info because he/she was a little uncertain of where bacteria come from.
YOu could cycle your tank that way, or add the fish you want and keep your ammonia and nitrite levels at .5 ppm or lower and your fish will live and be fine.
Mastiffman;4776852; said:
Because it doesn't work, in order for the "bacteria" to remain alive it has to be refirgerated and even then only lasts a month. If the product hasn't been kept cool and has been sitting on a shelf for longer then a month then the "live" bacteria will be non existent. Far better to use a product that uses bacteria larvae that remains dormant in a saline solution like Seachems stability.
creepyoldguy;4778360; said:Ok, when I move my motoro, aro, 3 green terrors and 2 oscars from my 150 to my 240 next month, I'll do that and throw new media in the sump
I was just as skeptical as you, so I tried it out for myself and it works. Many other members on this site have done the same. There is an entire thread dedicated to different members on this site testing it out, and their results can be seen here:
http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=324445
So yes, if you wanted to you could use brand new media in your sump. I'm doing it right now as I type this.
As I said, I'm a very skeptical person. I'm a scientist by training, and I wouldn't back a product that didn't have evidence to support it. That being said, I do not know about the efficacy of the API product the OP is talking about.
I doubt siphoning the gravel will suck up the BB, otherwise our filters would constantly push the BB off of our bio-media and not allow them to colonize.
I clicked their link, and it does not claim to contain nitrifying bacteria. It claims to contain bacteria which consume organic compounds in the water so as to allow the nitrifying bacteria to grow unhindered. This makes some sense, as I know that too much ammonia will prevent Nitrobacters from growing, and even too much ammonia will kill of the Nitrosomonas which normally feed off of it. I'm not entirely sure how it works (it'd be nice if they explained what species of bacteria, exactly what it consumed, and why it didn't last in the aquarium, since the instructions say to continuously dose, but perhaps that's because they don't want another company copying them).
I also just read about Seachem Stability on their site, and they actually claim to bottle both nitrifying and denitrifying bacteria. If this is possible, then it would seem to me that their product would be better, as opposed to just having a martyr bacteria that will feed and shortly die in order for the Nitrosomonas and Nitrobacters to establish themselves.
I also just read about Seachem Stability on their site, and they actually claim to bottle both nitrifying and denitrifying bacteria. If this is possible, then it would seem to me that their product would be better, as opposed to just having a martyr bacteria that will feed and shortly die in order for the Nitrosomonas and Nitrobacters to establish themselves.
I tried the API stess-zyme stuff...it didn't work in my case. Dead guppies and corries. have not tried Stability but the people who use it swear by it, and aren't swearing about the ammonia spikes.
I did "instantly" cycle my wife's 10g dwarf frog colony by using used gravel and some fake plants from one of the 29s (I had too much anywhoo) and my used sponge filter. Took the sponge out after a week and put it back in my tank. Two weeks later, no spikes.
So mastifman should be fine without a bottle of anything.
I did "instantly" cycle my wife's 10g dwarf frog colony by using used gravel and some fake plants from one of the 29s (I had too much anywhoo) and my used sponge filter. Took the sponge out after a week and put it back in my tank. Two weeks later, no spikes.
So mastifman should be fine without a bottle of anything.
Ammonia is needed to get the cycle started. Then somehow some witchcraft spawns this BB. It all starts with ammonia. You can move your old filter to your new tank and the old tank water would be for the ammonia. Nothing will cycle it immediately, but some things can help, like cycling it with fish can be a live version of a ammonia level tester to see if bacteria has started to flourish. Best is to start the tank with ammonia, and then do water changes if it gets to around 1ppm. Keep the ammonia around .5. Thats all I know, the rest is wizardry
makoshoemaker;4779406; said:
wizardry and witchcraft.........nice
The problem with the above , other than the wizardry and witchcraft, is your tank not should show any detectable ammonia if it is cycled properly. your water should not have any in it if your filter is functioning correctly.
step one is the formation of nitrosomonas, by adding some form of fish waste(ammonia). This breaks down into either ammonium(NH4) or ammonia(NH3). Ammonium is not particulaly toxic, while ammonia is. Wether or not you get one or the other has to do with PH. Above 7, you get ammonia, below it you get ammonium. Nitrosomonas will form and oxidize the ammonia
step two is the formation of nitrobacter which consume nitrites. This is the by-product of ammonia oxidation. Nirtrites are also toxic. The nitrobacter will convert the nitrites into nitrates, which are still toxic just at much more elevated levels.
step 3 water changes to rid the nitrates. Denitrifying bacteria can turn nitrates into nitrogen gas, but they need an anearobic(O2 deprived) environment in order to live and our tanks are oxygen rich so water changes are the best bet
no wizardry, just mother nature performing a simple three step process involving two forms of bacteria.(and a third if she can deplete the 02)
I have also used stability, and although i wont say it doesnt work, i do find that the systems ive used them on are not quite as stable as those done the tried and true way. Slow and steady developement of these bacteria has always proved to form the most stable environments in my experience. I also believe that the larger(and more spread out) the biofilter, the better, for a larger thinner biofilter can multiply much more quickly when needed to (adding fish,dead fish,decaying food, etc) than a thicker denser one. Two filters are better than one. Plus the added insurance if you have a failure with one of your filters.
And in all honesty, I have a really hard time with people saying they saw no harm to their fish when using certain cycling products......other than crashing on the bottom or gasping at the surface, its hard for you to tell what these methods of speeding the process up are really doing to your fish....just because they arent dying and floating to the top doesnt mean we might not be harming them in some way.......imo of course
