I could agree that bubbles or maybe even more rays might make a big difference in the enrichment of a rays life. My guy doesn't have a girl yet so he gets sand 
To all the people who have bare bottom tanks
- Thread starter bbenjamin21
- Start date
Hi Guys.
This debate will go on forever,its cropped up on more than one occasion and it will do so again.....bare bottom versus substrate.
Both methods work which has already been established,bare bottoms look clinical and are easy to maintain plus shows the ray off very well much in the same way as if you were to put a black diamond ray for instance in your white bath tub at home.....my goodness the ray would look great !....all these benifits suit the keeper not the ray so of course its going to be popular in a world where people have little time due to other commitments.All this is a far cry from what the ray is used to,South American stingrays originate from murky tanned waters with either mud or sand beneath them,this kind of substrate gives the animal somewhere to hide when it feels the need,im not suggesting using mud as this wouldnt work in an aquarium but im sure if a ray could speak it would choose substrate over bare bottom.Personally i use a fine
smooth gravel as i don't like to see fine sand stuck to the upper disc of the ray.I have 12 large tanks with numerous rays in there and its a sight to behold seeing them rooting and in some cases throwing the substrate around in their quest for food.Of course the food isnt always there but we are talking about a creature that although very intelligent for a fish will always use its basic instincts to forage..given the option.
At the end of the day like ive said at the beggining both methods work,people will always make their own minds up which way to go......but i reckon if the rays had a choice or say in the matter given the fact they are going to live the rest of their lives in captivity(20-30+ years) then they would more than likely want to live in an environment that is as close as possible to the one they have evolved and been accustomed to over millions of years.Negotiating and sweeping over bolders sucking and blowing under drift wood looking for food..etc etc surely has to make life more interesting both for the keeper and the ray alike...30+ years is a very long time to be bored IMO!
This debate will go on forever,its cropped up on more than one occasion and it will do so again.....bare bottom versus substrate.
Both methods work which has already been established,bare bottoms look clinical and are easy to maintain plus shows the ray off very well much in the same way as if you were to put a black diamond ray for instance in your white bath tub at home.....my goodness the ray would look great !....all these benifits suit the keeper not the ray so of course its going to be popular in a world where people have little time due to other commitments.All this is a far cry from what the ray is used to,South American stingrays originate from murky tanned waters with either mud or sand beneath them,this kind of substrate gives the animal somewhere to hide when it feels the need,im not suggesting using mud as this wouldnt work in an aquarium but im sure if a ray could speak it would choose substrate over bare bottom.Personally i use a fine
smooth gravel as i don't like to see fine sand stuck to the upper disc of the ray.I have 12 large tanks with numerous rays in there and its a sight to behold seeing them rooting and in some cases throwing the substrate around in their quest for food.Of course the food isnt always there but we are talking about a creature that although very intelligent for a fish will always use its basic instincts to forage..given the option.
At the end of the day like ive said at the beggining both methods work,people will always make their own minds up which way to go......but i reckon if the rays had a choice or say in the matter given the fact they are going to live the rest of their lives in captivity(20-30+ years) then they would more than likely want to live in an environment that is as close as possible to the one they have evolved and been accustomed to over millions of years.Negotiating and sweeping over bolders sucking and blowing under drift wood looking for food..etc etc surely has to make life more interesting both for the keeper and the ray alike...30+ years is a very long time to be bored IMO!
Hello Aquamen,
whats your real name ?....if you allow me to ask ?
I want to say to you ,that I have the same opinion like you in the discusion "sand or bare bottom"...your last Post in this thread was perfect
.
Kind regards Jörg
whats your real name ?....if you allow me to ask ?
I want to say to you ,that I have the same opinion like you in the discusion "sand or bare bottom"...your last Post in this thread was perfect
.Kind regards Jörg
johno27;4588686; said:I agree that sand is not needed to keep a ray alive but I have no idea what my ray would do all day without it. He spends 75% of the day digging through and blowing sand around. I know it seems silly to think of a fish being bored but I think he would be bored without his sand
2x on that! And 2x on Aquaman.
Im no expert in keeping rays, but you dont have to be an expert to see that glass is as unnatural as it gets, same with tiles. But it depends on the purspose of keeping the rays, are you going to have it in a livingroom pride or do you have them for breeding? Would be like with any other animal, breeding farms dont keep their chickens like they do outside in the yard(for the kids to play with).
Your argument doesn't really work man, They don't live in huge glass boxes in the wild either. Do they?waynes world;4588593; said:
It may sound silly for a person who dont know these animals, but of course they need a stimulating environment -other than just the food who fall at their heads. Same goes for all animals. Of course the rays can survive and reproduce in pure BB tanks, and trive (to some degree), but so can humans living in a prison cell, cows living in a barn, birds in "clean cages" etc... still it`s not neccesarily optimal. The way i see it, it`s really a question about what each and everyone focus on in fishkeeping...; Best possible environments for the fish - or as simple as possible for the keeper.
I have keept my rays on BB at some occasions while trying to find new substrate (last time for a couple of months) and there is now way you can tell me they like it better this way. Their behavior changed.
My focus is on the well being of the rays, and if that makes things more cumbersome/complicated (cleaning for eksample), ill take that "extra" job.
If im not able to handle that, then i would actually choose to not keep rays at all... specially now that i have actually seen with my own eyes -how they dont trive in BB tanks.
Keeping rays in glass tanks is not very natural, of course. But is that an excuse not to do our best giving them something to do -other than just eat and rape etch other? Stupid if you ask me...
I now use a relatively thin layer of gravel. Have found that this works best for the rays and me!
----------------------------
Btw a short but interesting article i found the other day...
"The results of the study showed that elasmobranchs (sharks and rays) possess cognitive abilities that rival those of bony fishes, or even birds and mammals".
http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/content.php?sid=2649
I keep fish in both bare bottom and substrate filled tanks. If you are keeping to breed, bare bottom works the best. It is easy to clean, no chance of injuries for mom or pups, no chance of waste buildup, etc. If you are keeping a lot of tanks for breeding purposes, bare bottom is the only way to go. However, if you love to watch the interesting behaviors of your fish sand bottom is the only way to go. I have four rays, and them move the sand around all day looking for food, burying themselves, or just moving it away from the glass as they flutter up the sides or front of the tank. I personally keep a deep sand bed of about 2 inches. I use pool filter sand, 250lbs in a 240 gallon. I find the rays like it, it is plenty deep to let them bury completely, and it makes the tank look more realistic. I have fronts and geophagus in the tank too to help clean up the waste of the stingrays, I haven't seen a stingray turd in a very long time, and to move the sand around and prevent anaerobic areas. I know there are a lot of people here who won't agree, but that's what works for me. If you want to see my tanks search sniceley in youtube and you can see what it looks like to have a deep sand bed and a well landscaped tank.
Carpet and hardwood floors are not natural either but it sure feels better for me than walking on the dirt lol. I notice a ray will no longer bury itself once it gets accustomed to a tank. I think if rays could talk, they would ask for a smooth bottom tank hehe.
I applaud Aquaman as he has hit the thumb with the nail! That in itself encapsulates everything and should end any debate.
In my current collection I've done both. One tank is strictly bare bottom that has larger rays that are very messy. A smaller growout tank with a 1 cm of pool filter sand and another tank with larger patch of sand underneath a piece of driftwood. I put sand in for the pups for them to have cover and get acclimated to their new home. I will probably keep sand in their tanks because I enjoy watching their "natural" behavior in a captive home.
In my current collection I've done both. One tank is strictly bare bottom that has larger rays that are very messy. A smaller growout tank with a 1 cm of pool filter sand and another tank with larger patch of sand underneath a piece of driftwood. I put sand in for the pups for them to have cover and get acclimated to their new home. I will probably keep sand in their tanks because I enjoy watching their "natural" behavior in a captive home.
dookie;4591044; said:
I love my laminate floors! I hate rocks, ouch! This thread actually got me motivated to start the process of going bare on my 360g. Scooped 20%/10g of the pebbles out while doing my water change today! There is no way I am going to put my pups on anything but silky smooth acrylic! Thank you!
