Most people on here measure the total length, including the tail. What's called standed length is when you don't include the tail, its not as commonly used in the hobby.So is it more common to give size with or without tail. I always thought it was without. Since not all tails are the same. Forktails for example, measure to the middle, to a tip. So I normally leave the tails off and measure to the end of actual tail muscle.