Under stocked vs over stocked...

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With this i absolutely relate. It is very very seldomm, however, that fish die on me. Those who die are allways new arrivals. :(

Same here, unfortunately. I've lost 8 fish in the past year. A jumping red tail shark, 6 angels that baffled me, and one of my daughter's cichlids (Carolinae) that didn't even make it out of quarantine. Not a feeling I ever want to have again. At least I didn't get a case of acute columnaris like my dad did...He lost half his fish in his 125 in a matter of a week, including some beautiful Taiwan Reefs.

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sorry.
I'll think twice before clicking on another one of aldiaz33's image links.
 
There are alot of valid points all around fortunately or unfortunately.. I'll admit I've learned alot from this site the past few years from all it's members.. even the ones at both ends of the spectrum. My personal criteria has shifted from when I first started lurking and joined this site a few years ago. Prior to it I worked in the LPS industry.. If you haven't and you can stand to see any animal die let alone fish, I don't suggest working in it. Turn-over and death rates are insanely high... on that note it will desensitize you. I use to think an Oscar in a 40B was OK... I also had similar line views on houseing other fish. After personal experiance and reading countless threads here ( most which I did while pregnant and laid up) My views shifted, and Its not because anyone "preaching" changed it, but simply by seeing what worked and didn't work for others, and measureing it against my own experiances, and everything I had picked up working in the trade, my dads teachings.. ect ect... It's liek the "perfect storm" sometimes going on...

But I am going to share My bad experiance this week, because when I first saw the thread. But wasn't able to sit down and read it as our daughter got her first ear infection following a nasty cold, so we where beat as is... parents out there know what I'm talking about. Our fish down stairs where "unattended" for 3 days... thankfully I had just done some water changes as our lil' monster was feeling better and was taking a good nap. During this time the filter on the 56 houseing a 9" RTC, 8" TSN, and 8" endlicheri got clogged. Last night I found the tank and its inhabitants on its last leg. Not sure exactly what happened.. but the floating plants got shredded up ( never happened before) and the RTC has a laceration on its side. I was lucky enough to save the other 2 but the RTC did not make it... This same set-up housed 3 juvi retic rays until recently when they where moved to a larger tank... and up to this point the fish where growing fast and furiouse and doing exceptional...

Now, there are people who are going to flame me for haveing a grow-out tank. People who are going to flame me for not checking the fish more, and people who are going to understand that "life" happens sometimes. It is very upsetting to lose a fish, but around here lately everyone just "judges" and people have stopped trying to help. I lost a fish, I'm not innocent of doing no harm. But no harm was intended. and IN this case the only thing differently I would have done is dragged my exhausetd butt downstairs to check on the fish... where normally 3-5 days here or there isn't a problem.

I am personally of the belief knowledge is power... 1/2 the time people have no clue what fish they buy before they buy them, have no plan, and just say "well I'll just sell it" ... imo this is poor fishkeeping. Having a plan, knowing what you are getting yourself into, and this is how tanks get grossely overstocked. I'm not a big fan of understocked tanks either... but the deffinition of that is what exactly? how can any tank thats stocked period be understocked?

In the end overstocking is a combination of Filtration, fish to big for your intended tanks ( by this i mean saying your not going to upgrade a fish into a larger tank knowing full well it will need one). I put filtration first because in the end It is one of the key componenets to a balances system be there 1 fish or 20...

BTW most the "massive die offs" that have disgusted me over the years where african cichlids tanks crammed so full of fish that the stress or more aggressive tankmates outright kill or outcompete them for food. And inadequete filtration/maintences/ect...

But in the end to each there own, it's like trying to tell someone not to leave their dog in the car no matter what season.... some people think its fine to do, and others think it's a big no-no.
 
The varying sentiments of fish do not translate into ability to keep a fish alive.
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I disagree; I think Drstranglove's point supports the theory that varying sentiments do account for the ability to rationalize poor outcomes and continue doing the same thing over and over again, despite astronomical evidence that there is something seriously wrong.

In other words, there is a direct correlation between sentiment and the likelihood of problematic behavior continuing. If each one of those losses was painful, he would have made changes that would have prevented so many subsequent losses. Since it's "just a fish," another one will be bought to replace the one that just died. One's sentiment or feeling towards the creature is precisely the thing that allows the cycle to continue.

If you want to be really truthful, if people sees fish the same as dogs/cats etc as they claim; all of them would be out of the hobby when the first improper cycle took the lives of the fish we are keeping.

I feel bad when my fish die and will correct whatever mistake I made(if there is a clear case); however, life goes on and I will replace my dead fish with another one.

When a negative outcome becomes a predictable or probable one, as you said you will take steps to reduce the probability of repeating that outcome/failure. That's not what is happening here and therein lies the sickness.
 
Ya to lose a few fish here and there it happens to everyone. Who hasn't lost fish here...but to lose that many fish in a short period of time like in Alex's 750g thread's #97 post then those hoarders shouldn't even be in this hobby...I don't think I've lost that many fish in all of my 14 yrs of being in this hobby.


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I think it all comes down to why you keep fish:
Either you keep fish to have your own "slice" of nature
or you keep fish just for the "big" fish and for the sake of having something "cool"
The people who keep fish for the slice of nature are, in my opinion, the "understockers". The people who just want something cool are the people who will cram fish into tanks, like the link shared in this thread.
 
I think it all comes down to why you keep fish:
Either you keep fish to have your own "slice" of nature
or you keep fish just for the "big" fish and for the sake of having something "cool"
The people who keep fish for the slice of nature are, in my opinion, the "understockers". The people who just want something cool are the people who will cram fish into tanks, like the link shared in this thread.

I keep fish because I was "born" into it as they say about some things.. we've always had 1 dog, and 1 cat in the house... and at least 1 fishtank... It's just apart of the lifestyle I grew up in, and its a good one as far as I'm concerned. And I joined this site specifically to get info on fish I could not get hands on experiance from others about before here.. my dad kept fancy guppies... not much isn't known about how to maintain them... as for others fish... well Thats a different story. There is so much BS in this industry reguarding "ideal" husbandry practices it takes dedication just to rifle threw all the crap to get to anything you can take to the bank. as for keeping of large fish... "MFK" has been a hub for exotic and not just large fish... this isn't "Community Fish keepers" So you'll get a more dense ratio of large fish keepers vs.. small fish keepers. "Aquaria Central" is at the top right of the webpage for peopel to use as well....
 
#3: I watch my fish eat their own young when they have bred, but haven't yet got either the skillz OR a safe environment to raise them in.
 
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