Violent crime down....gun ownership up!

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Even imperfect scientific review is far superior to the conjecture, anecdote and ideological drivel that's been the bulk of this thread. And I believe that sound gun policy in our country should be based on empirical science.

I do not know nor do I care exactly when this grant was initially funded. Most federal grants must undergo an annual funding review to continue to be funded. What is undeniable is that this grant continued to receive federal (NIH) funding when a Republic president was in office.

Matt

No imperfect science is infinitely more dangerous than conjecture. Conjecture can be easily dismissed science especially when shown to the who can't or won't read the underlying methodology is completely different.

The study you are asking for does not exist. Any one of those studies like this one can be dismissed as complete crap. Politics and science may nasty bed mates.

Grant could have easily been a one time disbursement grant. Since all they did was review existing data and not actually collect any. They did not run any actual studies over time so multiple disbursements over time were not required. The funding would have been approved by the Clinton administration. Post study write up and peer review can take more that a year. The study may have been FINISHED before Curious George took office.

As far as empirical science it's a basic question of goal. Will disarming everyone make the world safer. Sure absolutely except it's impossible genie is out of the bottle. Science is a tricky thing that can be made to say what every you want as long as you pick the data or use exotic regression techniques. If one used the state of NH for a firearms study it would prove that lower taxes, limited social services and basically unrestricted gun ownership reduces all crime but domestic. Can this be extrapolated to welfare enclaves in South Boston or South Bronx in NY?
 
He never made that assertion, not once. He simply pointed out that if the assertion that guns create more crime were correct the current drop in crime rate would not exist. So clearly there are other factors involved. many of which are shown to have a much tighter correctional to violent crime. Read the Portugal Study about decriminalizing narcotics, their street crime has almost vanished. If you don't fix the underlying problems that cause the individual to use the gun, disarming someone like me who has no intention of doing so will not help.
 
Of course - no study can ever be perfect. Even "Gold standard" clinical trials for new drug therapies have holes.

That doesn't mean that applying the best quantitative and qualitative methods is pointless.

This thread started with a baseless assertion that's been parroted over and over as "fact".

Significant peer-reviewed research has been conducted - in the US and internationally - to better understand the relationship between guns and violent crime.

What does it tell us?

Dr. Charles Wellford from the University of Maryland reviewed findings and recommendations from the National Research Council (NRC) 2005 panel study and resulting report, Firearms and Violence: A Critical Review. He chaired the NRC panel, sharing editing responsibilities with John Pepper and Carol Petrie.

By 2005, research indicated that higher rates of household gun ownership appear to be associated with higher rates of gun suicides, illegal diversion from legitimate commerce is an important source of guns used to commit crimes and suicides, firearms are used defensively many times per day, and some types of targeted law enforcement interventions may lower gun-related crimes. Dr. Wellford reported that the panel found no credible evidence to suggest that right-to-carry laws decrease or increase crime. Also at the time of the report, there was no research to show that the more than 80 gun violence prevention programs the committee examined had any effect on children's behavior, knowledge, attitudes or beliefs about firearms.

The NRC panel found that many questions surrounding firearms and violence cannot be addressed with existing data and research. Existing research and data remain too weak to support policy development. For instance, research concerning defensive gun use is so disparate in data and methods that huge differences in results cannot be explained. The methodology necessary for unraveling causal relationships between firearms policy and violence was seldom employed or adequately developed in the research reviewed by the panel. Many policy dilemmas remained problematic at the time of the report, including the need for public authorities to carefully consider conflicting constitutional issues, facts and opinions regarding firearms and violence, and where the balance lies in the costs and benefits of private gun ownership.

Dr. Wellford reviewed report recommendations including federal government support for a systematic program of data collection and research specifically addressing firearms and violence. Current ownership data are limited and little scientific data exist on firearms markets. He suggested that the National Violent Death Reporting System (NVDRS) begins to address this problem, but only 22 states have adopted it to date, and funding support for the states continues to be an issue.

In addition to much-needed development of data and methods, further research is needed on markets, defensive gun use, right-to-carry laws, suicide and criminal justice interventions. He suggested this meeting of the working group would contribute up-to-date information to the discussion and identify important research issues, questions and gaps for consideration by the field of research on firearms and violence.

Here's a summary presentation of this review: http://www.nij.gov/nij/topics/crime/gun-violence/working-group/wellford/welcome.htm

Matt


No imperfect science is infinitely more dangerous than conjecture. Conjecture can be easily dismissed science especially when shown to the who can't or won't read the underlying methodology is completely different.

The study you are asking for does not exist. Any one of those studies like this one can be dismissed as complete crap. Politics and science may nasty bed mates.

Grant could have easily been a one time disbursement grant. Since all they did was review existing data and not actually collect any. They did not run any actual studies over time so multiple disbursements over time were not required. The funding would have been approved by the Clinton administration. Post study write up and peer review can take more that a year. The study may have been FINISHED before Curious George took office.

As far as empirical science it's a basic question of goal. Will disarming everyone make the world safer. Sure absolutely except it's impossible genie is out of the bottle. Science is a tricky thing that can be made to say what every you want as long as you pick the data or use exotic regression techniques. If one used the state of NH for a firearms study it would prove that lower taxes, limited social services and basically unrestricted gun ownership reduces all crime but domestic. Can this be extrapolated to welfare enclaves in South Boston or South Bronx in NY?
 
Worth reading for anyone who wants to seriously understand this issue:

FIREARMS AND VIOLENCE: A CRITICAL REVIEW
Committee to Improve Research Information and Data on Firearms
Charles F. Wellford, John V. Pepper, and Carol V. Petrie, editors
Committee on Law and Justice
Division of Behavioral and Social Sciences and Education
NATIONAL RESEARCH COUNCIL OF THE NATIONAL ACADEMIES

http://www.nap.edu/openbook.php?record_id=10881&page=R1
 
Guns weren't invented as party favors.... the objective is to kill. Especially in the wrong hands.
The problem is its to easy to get a gun now a days, you can go to a pawn shop and get one illegally, or buy off the streets. I think something as powerful as a gun needs to have more restrictions.... these are my thoughts.
 
Here are some ”facts” for you should any man, government or beast attempt to victimize the members of my family they will be stopped by me and my gun.

what will happen to you and yours?
No study matters your can spout all of them you like. The fox will always tell the chickens they are safe

Here is another fact cars kill more people a year than guns.

Heart disease kills more people than guns.

I can go on and on and on the only reason big brother preaches gun control is because they want to control you and its a hell of a lot easier to control un armed sheep. The only reason your are free or have any rights is because people who thought clearly picked up weapons and fought for what was right. You're continued rights hinge on a armed force ready to pick up that fight should the need arise again. That is a fact.





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hey ,do you think trayvon martin thought lots of idiots wih guns was a good idea ,maybe someone shoulda asked right before he was STALKED and gunned down by one
 
kinda thought this whole thread was a political discussion ,my apologies
 
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