viper identification..

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a whole other kettle of fish wouldn't you think?
LOL well considering I think the minimum driving age should be raised to 18...
Why not wait til your older to do something that can kill you? Someone put time money and energy into keeping you alive to this point
Seeing anyone get killed is upsetting
when it's prevenatable and a young person even more so
 
monsternoob;1279820; said:
Ophiuchis, your snakes consist of one ball python, have you even ever SEEN an eyelash viper? You are nobody to tell this guy what to do. You insult and belittle him, when you yourself have zero knowledge of the topic in hand.

This isn't a reptile forum, this is a fish forum, a lot of the people here have limited knowledge of reptiles. Go and ask the same question on reptileforums.com. My advice is that if you have your heart set on an eyelash viper, find someone who can teach you the correct handling methods, and maybe keep an ATB for a little while, so you can get used to handling a snappy arboreal snake, and manouevering around one. Definitely try to get in touch with some local venemous keepers.

Well glad you can speak for everyone. There are people on here that keep more reptiles than fish... a lot of the time keeping one overlaps with the other.
I don't think many reptile forums would agree that getting a venomous arboreal is a great idea given the amount of general snake experiance as fishes, not that B. schlegelii is a good "starter" venemous.
Anyway I will stick with what I said, and maybe try with something like an ATB before you go rushing in, there are a few different bright colour "morphs" of them also. And yes, it is a great idea to seek help from local keepers if you are going to go down this route no matter what. It might change your mind, but it will at least give you a lot of tips and help, more than you can read. But I am not about to encourage it.
 
monsternoob;1279820; said:
Ophiuchis, your snakes consist of one ball python, have you even ever SEEN an eyelash viper? You are nobody to tell this guy what to do. You insult and belittle him, when you yourself have zero knowledge of the topic in hand.

First of all, that ball python is what only consists of my collection currently. I've been doing this for over a decade, sport. Don't go down that road. And yes, I have seen an eyelash viper up close (no glass between either!). In addition to that, I've taken care of neotropical rattlers and one copperhead. Need to see my resume, tiger?

I don't have to attempt to ride a motorcycle to know I'm not ready for it. I've never ridden one before, so why would it make it sense for me to get one if I don't know how to use it? Don't you agree that I would be better off learning to ride a friend's bike and learning from them before just diving into getting one myself?

My advice is that if you have your heart set on an eyelash viper, find someone who can teach you the correct handling methods, and maybe keep an ATB for a little while, so you can get used to handling a snappy arboreal snake, and manouevering around one. Definitely try to get in touch with some local venemous keepers.

Thats just it, monsternoob. You obviously have not read this entire thread.

This guy Fishes33 has stated himself that he has had no experience with hots whatsoever and has no intentions of gaining that experience either. He's just gonna read whatever it says on that website and get the snake. Can you honestly agree with that? How well can you teach someone how to shoot a gun over the internet? or ride a bike? Not well, I would imagine. You would want someone right there with you showing you the ropes, right?

Seriously dude, look at the big picture here and get a clue. Sit back and you might learn a thing or two.

In closing, I don't have to know every single little detail about eyelash vipers to know that this little rube is not ready to own one...not yet anyway.
 
Flaming someone will never change their opinion.

Education stops when insults start.

There are cost that are associated with doing anything properly. The most dangerous creature that I have ever kept is a Fila Brasileiro. It is a 150 lb...man eating dog...that can best be described as a crocidile mouth on a pythons body.

I took precautions every day to make sure someone didnt get hurt.

But calling this guy an imbecile or an idiot will not change his mind. And it doesnt help anyone else that might read this thread.
 
Perhaps....but it is frustrating knowing full and well that this hobby of ours is directly (and negatively) affected by people like him.

Behemoth, if someone out there wanted to buy a Fila Brasileiro without any prior experience or knowledge about the breed, and then failed to care for it and it ended up seriously hurting someone else (probably heavily publicized in the media, no doubt)....and then the powers that be then regulated ownership of said animal, which could result in you giving up your pet or possibly moving to another state.....and then you saw the guy on the street one day.....could you resist the urge to go up to him and speak your mind? Knowing that he was directly responsible in the loss of your freedom, so to speak?

Just shedding some perspective on the issue...
 
I deal with "idiots" everyday. I work with the courts and with child protection agencies...

My point is simply...when I insult them...I lose any chance of helping them...or protecting their children. They stop listening and the relationship becomes adversial.

You were absolutely correct in your intentions. The approach needed a little work.

I love steak. But I like medium rare with a baked potato. If you were to take that same steak and slap me in the face with it...I wouldn't enjoy it nearly as much.
 
happypike1.jpg


Anyway, get a mentor before you go down venomous. Hell, get a permit before you keep venomous. This thread is so wrong on so many level.
 
Behemoth;1280193; said:
I deal with "idiots" everyday. I work with the courts and with child protection agencies...

My point is simply...when I insult them...I lose any chance of helping them...or protecting their children. They stop listening and the relationship becomes adversial.

You were absolutely correct in your intentions. The approach needed a little work.

I love steak. But I like medium rare with a baked potato. If you were to take that same steak and slap me in the face with it...I wouldn't enjoy it nearly as much.

Well, of course if this rube came into the business I work at as a customer, I'm not going to call him an idiot. But we're on the WWW, and not restrained by the niceties of public daytime etiquette. I understand your steak metaphor, but sometimes people need a slap in the face to bring them back to reality.

Now I still stand by everything I've said in this thread, and I'm not apologizing for anything. I hate sugar-coating advice for people and by his actions/attitude on the matter, Fishes33 represents everything that is wrong with this hobby that I hold dear, and I hate it when the stupidity of one individual has the potential to ruin it for us responsible folk. But while I'm not really offended by any of this, I don't understand why you and Monsternoob decided to attack me directly about all this. I'd like to point out two things:

1.) Two other people threw out insults before I did and nothing has been said to them (at least publicly anyway)

2.) While I did insult Fishes33 eventually, it was only after he clearly disregarded sound advice and with it, his own better judgment and common sense. That's why I insulted him. I'm saying this to give you a reason, not an excuse. And I'll continue to insult anyone else on here that acts the same way.
 
To Fishes33:

While I'm not apologizing for calling you names, I hope you understand my reasons for doing so.

You asked about an animal that happens to be venomous (which you did acknowledge yourself). We answered your questions, and because we were concerned about your well-being as well as any new pet you may acquire, we questioned your experience level. I mean, come one. This is not like just buying an aggressive snake that bites a lot and may draw a little blood; this is a snake that could potentially send you (or a loved one) to the ER, regardless of what some site says. Quite simply, its NOT something to be taken lightly.

But your attitude seems to imply you're doing exactly that. Because only "one" website said the species stayed small (which was innaccurate) and not "that" aggressive (another questionable claim to make regarding any hot), you immediately declared it as "manageable and affordable" and something to obtain as soon as humanely possible (when you move out). And this is after you admitted to having no hot experience whatsoever.

Now I know there's no set procedure to training to keep hots, but in this hobby, there does seem to be a general road to take; i.e. getting to know a fellow herper who has experience working with hots, and essentially, mentoring under them and gaining enough experience for yourself. And most of the folks in this thread advised this, and you blatantly said that you could learn everything from that website. I don't care who runs that website, but thats a load of crap, and anyone with a brain will tell you the same. Like I said before, its like someone trying to teach you to ride a bike over the internet. How well do you think you're gonna learn?

I don't know what its like in Canada, but down here in the U.S., people with attitudes like yours do this all the time; they buy some animal they can't handle, and sooner/later, someone gets hurt (whether its a python that eats someone's dog or a hot that bites someone), and its that persons' fault. The media blows the story wide open, and in the end, there's one more law that gets passed that says "people living in [insert state] cannot own [insert said reptile] any longer". Did you know there's laws in some places that ban the ownership of all constrictor snakes? That's not just boas and pythons; that includes kingsnakes, ratsnakes, milksnakes, etc. How dumb is that? All because some idiot didn't keep his burmese python in an escape-proof cage, means no one there can even own a kingsnake.

Now when some exotic hot snake bites someone, its even worse. The media just views it as "Wow, you mean anyone can buy a venomous snake?' and the lawmakers (who never knwo anything about herps and just assume all snakes are dangerous) get worried and just pass an ordinance that makes it illegal. I'm not saying the logic behind this is 100% correct, just that its what happens.

And besides the 'danger" factor, the legality and everything else mentioned above, there's the insurance thing. Say you buy this snake, and it bites you one day. You go to the hospital. Providing you're not allergic to the venom or the antivenin (which is another pickle within itself), they treat you with the right antivenin and you recover. First of all, antivenin is expensive and most insurances don't cover it anyway. Here's why: you go home and the insurance gets the hospital bill. They call you asking about the very expensive exotic snake antivenin on the bill, wondering how on earth did you get bitten by a viper thats clearly not native to Canada. You tell them you own one. They think, "why on earth would anyone own such a dangerous animal?" and do one of two things: they either drop you as a client because they don't want to risk paying for another antivenin shot, or they bite it and then jack up the cost of your insurance.

See? There's many things to consider before simply buying a venomous snake. Now, I don't claim to know your age or maturity level, but judging by your statements on this thread, you have not thought all of this through...and you're still wanting to get the snake just becuase its "cheaper than a green tree python"? This is not the logic of an intelligent mind, and thats why you ended up getting insulted.
 
And you were justified in everything that you have said...

I was just trying to get my post count up. LOL. :popcorn:

I'm joking...however...I definitely understand your frustration. I experienced the same frustration when I raised the fila. There were the idiots that had no business with them and then there were the elitist that drove the price up and made it harder for everyone. Of course if you had enough money they would sell you anything in their kennel and proper fencing, socialization, education were out the window.

I know very little about herps. I kept a corn snake once and enjoyed it. But when we adopted our kids...there is just something about adoption workers and snakes that don't mix. So I had to find a proper home for him.

I do not blame you at all for protecting something dear to you.

But I do enjoy the rhetoric. :ROFL:
 
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