Vontehillos

[lach]

the rio salto fish is quite different in body shape, and the vontehillos look to have shorter fins and a slighty different shape to your ordinary carp

 

[GMFISHNUT]

Great photos as usual!

To answer your question, IMO, since they come from the same watershed as Escons, Chairel, etc. I can't see how anyone would consider them a distinct race. There may be characteristics that breed true as the result of the limited collection of wild breeding stock (resulting in a limited breeding population in captivity) but that is the case no matter the species.

Also, since it doesn't seem there are enough fully grown adults with which to establish a viable type, any summary judgments about this fish are premature.

All that said, based on the similar fish already in the hobby for some time, it almost a guarantee that these fish will be knock-outs as adults, even if there's nothing dramatically new about them.

Agreed Chris but being that these are "wild", if they are considered a new variant this would be the generation to find any subtle differences in.

I've never kept any of the Carpintes sp. before but I think I'll hold on to these so we can see how they turn out.

I've actually been using them as targets for my pair of Breidhori until I started reading the recent threads on here. Moving them to their own tank now!

 

[GMFISHNUT]

the rio salto fish is quite different in body shape, and the vontehillos look to have shorter fins and a slighty different shape to your ordinary carp

Agreed, the Saltos look more deep bodied, gorgeous fish!

 

[dogofwar]

that's the point escondidos and chariel aren't "classified" as different fish. They're informal names given, in this case, by vendors.

Where things get fishy is when multiple names are given to the same fish from the same place... As is the case for Escondido, chariel...and now vontehillo... Which are all the carpinte varient from the rio panuco drainage near Tampico

Multiple names for the same fish add to confusion (and probably sales)

Matt

Very nice George, it's great to see some high quality photo's of these guys. If Escon's and Chariel are classified differently, I really don't see why these shouldn't be also. I too am interested in seeing how they turn out as adults. If Ira can get his hands on some, I'll make sure to get some pics.

 

[baldtaxguy]

Very nice pics and nice looking fish - something I may give a try.

 

[cichlid fiend]

Winner!!!!

 

[crisper]

beautiful fish i have kept and bred carpintis before, but these are real stunners.

 

[fishguts]

that's the point escondidos and chariel aren't "classified" as different fish. They're informal names given, in this case, by vendors.

Where things get fishy is when multiple names are given to the same fish from the same place... As is the case for Escondido, chariel...and now vontehillo... Which are all the carpinte varient from the rio panuco drainage near Tampico

Multiple names for the same fish add to confusion (and probably sales)

Matt

im no expert on any of this stuff but from what ive read from the last thread made about this and now this one i agree with dogofwar. i think what he is saying just makes more sense imo.

 

[cchhcc]

I agree. Dogofwar hit the nail on the head.

George, would you not expect to find slight differences in ANY species that you collect? I could go to my local pond and collect sunfish. If all the fish I collected came from one or two breeding beds near each other the fish would certainly have some similar characteristics. But those characteristics may not "exactly" match up to the sunfish on the other side of the pond. Is that a "new" race?

At the end of the day, any ichthyologist will tell you that splitting up fish based on slight variations in coloration (and these that are being discussed are verrrrry slight) is no basis for reclassification.

I'm surprised that the marketing angle gets dismissed so quickly. It seems there are races of common fish unique to just about every vendor.

 

[Aquamojo]

I believe (from what I have read in articles and board posts elsewhere) that the Rio Salto fish is generally considered by the experts to be a new, undescribed species ... and not a carpentis variant. That may have changed in recent years though, DNA is making a mess of classic diagnostics.

You are correct. Here's the adult male Rio Salto for comparison. The difference in the body shape is that it is more elongated with an exaggerated tapering in the back of the body...and a longer caudal peduncle.

Keep in mind that the collection locale is just as much for maintaining the purity of the species. I know lots of folks who keep fish from different collection points separated.