Vontehillos

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Anybody that is visiting Mexico right now better be careful, we just got reports of a shootout that killed 58 folks in Reynosa. The Gulf Cartel and the Zetas are having it out and Tampico is a hotspot.

They just closed the US Counsulate in Reynosa, which is about 10 miles from where I live.

All my inlaws have came over to this side to let things settle down.
 
Our buddy Paul just posted this on Cichlid Madness, where he is attacking Mo and has some ugly stuff to say about Li as well. Apparently he is talking to Don and this is what he says..........

"Had been to Vontehillo, in May, 2009"

So maybe that is the collection time frame
 
This is a quote from Don this morning


"Had been to Vontehillo, in May, 2009. It's NE of Chairel, in or near the N city limits of Tampico, several miles from the Caribbean. A relatively small lagoon, certainly no more than tens of acres. But anybody that thinks I'm going to give out the GPS coordinates on the internet before I've well established my brood stock should first ask him/herself a few simple questions. Furthermore, Paul, Escondido and Chairel likely still have an abundance of carpintis, don't know of any reason why they wouldn't, but there are reasons for collecting where I do, about which there is little time to elaborate today. It is entirely likely you misunderstood what I spoke of on the phone a month or so back. Better that we discuss this in person in the near future if possible."

So I would guess he was collecting in may 2009 from there not sure of that though.
 
jgentry;3927633; said:
Why is that? You haven't even seen an adult. Is it your favorite just because people are talking about it?

If I had a batch of 2" vonts and a batch of 2" escondido's and took pictures of both and mixed them together nobody is going to be able to pick out which ones are which.
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There is clearly differences in the pics ive seen of the Vonts and pics ive seen of similar sized Ecso's. I too think that the Vont is my new favourite Carpinte.

Im sure, having kept Chairels for 2 years and having a close friend who keeps Esco's, i would defo be able to tell these two races apart if they were mixed together at the same size. EASILY!!!
 
Jimmy Side eye;3928600; said:
There is clearly differences in the pics ive seen of the Vonts and pics ive seen of similar sized Ecso's. I too think that the Vont is my new favourite Carpinte.

Im sure, having kept Chairels for 2 years and having a close friend who keeps Esco's, i would defo be able to tell these two races apart if they were mixed together at the same size. EASILY!!!
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What exactly would these clear differences be?? And how exactly could you tell a vont from and escondido when you have never even seen and adult vont to know what it will look like. Plus add in the fact that there is a very good chance that genetically Escondido's and Vontehillo's are the same fish.

There is the possiblility that this is a different fish but there is a real good possibility that they are indeed the same fish. So please explain how you are telling 2 fish apart that for all we know are genetically the same. Plus add in the fact that if you go collect a 100 of each of these you are going to get fish that have variations. Your going to get fish from Vontehillo that look like fish from the Escondido collection point and vice versa. I could pretty much promise that. Some may look different, some will look the same.

Maybe there are differences that I'm just not seeing, if so someone please explain and show them though. Maybe it's just me that is blind:).
 
Jimmy Side eye;3928600; said:
Im sure, having kept Chairels for 2 years and having a close friend who keeps Esco's, i would defo be able to tell these two races apart if they were mixed together at the same size. EASILY!!!
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I agree with you. I can tell 2 Escondidos that are sibblings of the same batch apart easily too. They can not be exactly the the same.

Escondidos stands apart from all these variants because you can tell them apart from their pearls.. Pearls from more to less: Escons, Vontes, Chariel, lahilla.

GMfishnut, do you have any of these Carpintes extra?
 
jgentry;3928671; said:
What exactly would these clear differences be?? And how exactly could you tell a vont from and escondido when you have never even seen and adult vont to know what it will look like. Plus add in the fact that there is a very good chance that genetically Escondido's and Vontehillo's are the same fish.
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Take a closer look my friend, there are differences in facial markings, pearl sizes/distribution/colour and base colour.
I agree, it would be far easier to compare these races using adult specimens, but for now, like i said, i have observed differences in 'similar sized' fish. I also agree that there may be great diversity between these fish in a very small area, and another collection from almost the exact spot where Don found these, may produce slightly different fish again.
As a semi serious hobbiest, i would much prefer my fish to be labelled with their catch locations. I intend to purchase some Vonts and will keep them seperated from my Chairels.
I have no doubt these are genetically the same species, just different races.
 
Jimmy Side eye;3928722; said:
Take a closer look my friend, there are differences in facial markings, pearl sizes/distribution/colour and base colour.
I agree, it would be far easier to compare these races using adult specimens, but for now, like i said, i have observed differences in 'similar sized' fish. I also agree that there may be great diversity between these fish in a very small area, and another collection from almost the exact spot where Don found these, may produce slightly different fish again.
As a semi serious hobbiest, i would much prefer my fish to be labelled with their catch locations. I intend to purchase some Vonts and will keep them seperated from my Chairels.
I have no doubt these are genetically the same species, just different races.
Click to expand...

I think we agree to agree;). I pretty much agree with everything you said. There are a few minor differences from the pictures we have seen. But I guess I question if they represent the population of that collection point completely?

My thing is that if you caught 100 vontehillo's and 100 escondido's and put them in a pond could you go back and sort them back out using the small differences you listed? Will any of the Escondido's have these same traits? I sure the heck don't think I could.

Sorry, not trying to be a pain in the #$$ about this. I'm truely interested in hearing why people think they are different.
 
Geography would suggest that they're the same race of the same species... Just different collection locations.

...and there are an infinite number of collection locations for any given race...

Matt

Jimmy Side eye;3928722; said:
Take a closer look my friend, there are differences in facial markings, pearl sizes/distribution/colour and base colour.
I agree, it would be far easier to compare these races using adult specimens, but for now, like i said, i have observed differences in 'similar sized' fish. I also agree that there may be great diversity between these fish in a very small area, and another collection from almost the exact spot where Don found these, may produce slightly different fish again.
As a semi serious hobbiest, i would much prefer my fish to be labelled with their catch locations. I intend to purchase some Vonts and will keep them seperated from my Chairels.
I have no doubt these are genetically the same species, just different races.
Click to expand...
 
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