Warning... Electricity kills!!
- Thread starter Potts050
- Start date
Heres something scary, my 135 is in a room directly above the breaker box, or fuse box to my home, if that thing broke would i be in danger? i wonder if water could run onto the box and make electrial contact even before it hits my box. i mean contact where the line enters the house and runs to the back of the box. I also have an outlet in the floor of that room also. damn i gotta get an electrician in here.
Here is a quote from some material about GFCI's online,
"Does a GFI need to be grounded to work properly? I want to put one in my bathroom, but my outlet is an old, ungrounded type.?
"According to the NEC, it is allowable to install GFI's in ungrounded situations. This makes sense, since the GFI is not dependent of the ground to function. Remember, it does not measure shorts to the ground, it measures the current difference between the hot and neutral wires. A sudden difference, indicating that there is another path for the electricity to flow through... you, for example, causes the GFI to open the circuit and save you from permanently curly hair.
"Of course, most safety-conscious electricians prefer not to install a grounded-type "three prong" outlet in an ungrounded situation. Think about it... once the outlet is installed, there is no way for anyone to know if the outlet is really grounded or not without testing it. Thus, there is a hidden shock hazard should an appliance or tool that needs grounding... has three-prong plug... is plugged into this outlet.
"However, the NEC allows GFI's to be installed in ungrounded situations PROVIDED THAT the outlet is labelled "ungrounded". Though not "officially" approved in the NEC, the grounding hole in the GFI can be permanently defeated by using an epoxy or other adhesive to seal the hole.
"Though a GFI will activate if a grounded appliance develops an electrical short circuit to ground... such as when YOU touch a metal saw and become the path to ground... you will experience a momentary electrical shock. This could be a minor tingle or could be more catastrophic, especially if you are on a ladder or roof. This excerpt is from an OSHA (Occupational Safety and Health Administration) article on wiring in nursing homes and the dangers to employees working with ungrounded outlets...
"The ground-fault circuit interrupter, on the other hand, is a fast-acting device which senses small current leakage to ground and, in a fraction of a second, shuts off the electricity and interrupts its faulty flow to ground. The rapid response of the GFCI is fast enough to prevent electrocution and this protection is independent of the condition of the grounding conductor.
"A GFCI can prevent an electrocution; however, it cannot by itself prevent an initial electric shock to an employee before it interrupts the circuit. This initial shock could lead to injuries of an indirect or secondary nature in which involuntary muscular reaction could cause bruises, bone fractures, and even death resulting from collisions or falls. Therefore, GFCIs are in addition to, and not in lieu of, equipment grounding conductor requirements."
Here is a link to the complete article:
http://www.naturalhandyman.com/iip/infelectrical/infgfi.shtm
We sometimes confuse GFCI's with surge supressors which are common in power bars. These devices do not provide ground fault protection although they will prevent some harmonics and high voltage spikes caused by starting large horsepower electrical equipment. There are a newer class of GFCI that will trip upon the loss of power and require a reset in order to work again. This is an added safety feature that is useful for power tools but could be deadly for aquarium power supplies as Dr Joe pointed out.
Make sure your using the right one. If arcing and sparking in your house wiring is tripping the GFCI then you should probably look at that too.
"Does a GFI need to be grounded to work properly? I want to put one in my bathroom, but my outlet is an old, ungrounded type.?
"According to the NEC, it is allowable to install GFI's in ungrounded situations. This makes sense, since the GFI is not dependent of the ground to function. Remember, it does not measure shorts to the ground, it measures the current difference between the hot and neutral wires. A sudden difference, indicating that there is another path for the electricity to flow through... you, for example, causes the GFI to open the circuit and save you from permanently curly hair.
"Of course, most safety-conscious electricians prefer not to install a grounded-type "three prong" outlet in an ungrounded situation. Think about it... once the outlet is installed, there is no way for anyone to know if the outlet is really grounded or not without testing it. Thus, there is a hidden shock hazard should an appliance or tool that needs grounding... has three-prong plug... is plugged into this outlet.
"However, the NEC allows GFI's to be installed in ungrounded situations PROVIDED THAT the outlet is labelled "ungrounded". Though not "officially" approved in the NEC, the grounding hole in the GFI can be permanently defeated by using an epoxy or other adhesive to seal the hole.
"Though a GFI will activate if a grounded appliance develops an electrical short circuit to ground... such as when YOU touch a metal saw and become the path to ground... you will experience a momentary electrical shock. This could be a minor tingle or could be more catastrophic, especially if you are on a ladder or roof. This excerpt is from an OSHA (Occupational Safety and Health Administration) article on wiring in nursing homes and the dangers to employees working with ungrounded outlets...
"The ground-fault circuit interrupter, on the other hand, is a fast-acting device which senses small current leakage to ground and, in a fraction of a second, shuts off the electricity and interrupts its faulty flow to ground. The rapid response of the GFCI is fast enough to prevent electrocution and this protection is independent of the condition of the grounding conductor.
"A GFCI can prevent an electrocution; however, it cannot by itself prevent an initial electric shock to an employee before it interrupts the circuit. This initial shock could lead to injuries of an indirect or secondary nature in which involuntary muscular reaction could cause bruises, bone fractures, and even death resulting from collisions or falls. Therefore, GFCIs are in addition to, and not in lieu of, equipment grounding conductor requirements."
Here is a link to the complete article:
http://www.naturalhandyman.com/iip/infelectrical/infgfi.shtm
We sometimes confuse GFCI's with surge supressors which are common in power bars. These devices do not provide ground fault protection although they will prevent some harmonics and high voltage spikes caused by starting large horsepower electrical equipment. There are a newer class of GFCI that will trip upon the loss of power and require a reset in order to work again. This is an added safety feature that is useful for power tools but could be deadly for aquarium power supplies as Dr Joe pointed out.
Make sure your using the right one. If arcing and sparking in your house wiring is tripping the GFCI then you should probably look at that too.
Potts050;528641; said:
Good Post for the people that don't understand or just as a reminder to the rest...
Dr Joe
.
I thought I should bump this thread as reminder to the experienced and a cautionary note to the beginner that electricity is dangerous around our tanks. Please read from the beginning.
GFI's are great in theory, but I don't trust them on pumps and other vital equipment. I would rather take my chances with careful planning of wiring, and use of drip loops, rather than take a chance of a finicky GFI tripping when I'm not around. If anyone has had GFI outlets in their kitchen or bathroom, then you know what I mean. Been into the hobby for decades, and haven't been killed yet. Just my own opinion, not advice.
hillbilly;844251; said:
I'm sorry. I don't agree, and I think you opinion is dangerous. Drip loops prevent shorts. They don't save lives. They just stop the breakers from tripping.
I don't like most laws, but GFCIs save lives. In fact, they were probably saving your life every time they were "finicky"
Brandon
cbfreder;844900; said:
i agree i am a electrician and have been for the last 20 year,,in the uk they are called rcd's ,, and i will not add on to a circuit that is not rcd protected(or even alter) i think it is irresponsible to keep a fish tank in your house with out adequate protection,,,, accidents happen we dont mean them they just do,,been save dont cost alot
