watching my ray slow die

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jaguarinn;2984304; said:
requesting/paying for a seller to hold the rays for 2-3 weeks before shipping

The point is to get healthy rays first, $$$ should not always be first priority when buying livestock, usually good deals are not good deals, unfortunately. If $$$ is a big issue for any of us, we should NOT be keeping rays! They are very demanding! If a seller is not willing hold, with $$$ down, one might want to look elsewhere... sometimes these sellers offer awesome pricing because they are not set-up to warehouse fish (like an lfs) and are turning stock quite fast. It is a great way for individuals to get access to great pricing, but with a consequence sometimes. So, long story short, these little guys would probably have a better chance if they were imported and then held for a month or two before shipping again, IMO. This is not the fault of the seller, just a result of how this industry works sometimes.

So buy with these consequences in mind, and please stop mentioning the seller in this, it is not the sellers fault if the fish arrives alive and in perfect shape.
 
what are you using for filtration?

water parameters?

tankmates?
 
I was told that the rays were qurantined for a couple of weeks aready. I was told when I decided to order that the rays weren't ready yet and waited about a week before they shipped.

I am not bashing the vendor in anyway. I have said nothing but good things in my threads and post. I just feel that there could ve been something that was done to prevent this. If the rays have to be quarntined longer or better supplier to customer communication on how to handle the rays properly.

I am still a novice at ray keeping I will admit. This forum has helped me alot. I have sucessfully kept a pair of retics for awhile now. I would have to say hystrix should not be that much more difficult. I am beginning to believe that the rays had parasite problems. I noticed that they died after they ate the night before. All 3 rays were eating and everything. 2 females lasted 2 days and the male lasted 10 days. When the first ray died, it had blood traces in its anus and the skin looked like it was peeling abit. The second ray died it just turned really dark patterns. When I first saw it died, I though to myself wow her colors is already coming it? Then I realized it wasn't breathing. When the third one died, I was there to see it die. I curled abit and had poop stuck in its butt, like it was very hard to pass. It had dark colors too like the second one. The poop was redish color and had a whiteish paste to it. Parasite? I was feeding them cut up night crawlers. I don't believe the worms were tainted because the retics are still alive and they eat them too.

As far has my tank setup. 125gl long with PFS substrate, 2 fluval 405, 3 emperor 400. All filters have carbon, bio media, and sponge filter. Tankmates are 18in silver aro, 1 red gold severum, 2 green severum, 1 pink con, 2 small plecos.

Water parameters are 0 amonia less than 50 nitrite and 0 nitrate. Water temp always at 84F and I do about 3lbs per 100 gal of salt. PH is right at 7. There is 2 med size pieces of driftwood and 2 stones.

I acclimate them by putting them in a 20gal container with water from my tank, while they are still in the shipping bags. After about any hour I release them into another 20gal container with water from my tank and cover it to keep it dark. The next morning I feed alittle black worm and then I introduce them to my tank. Then I do another WC, first done when I took out water to acclimate.

I decided not to quarntine them because I was old there already were. I was planning on use the 125 as a grow out, until I get a 220 next year when my roommate moves out.

So you guys can flame away on what you think I am doing wrong. Or why I should not be ray keeper. I see 2 victims here, the dead rays, and me. As far as the money issue, I wouldn't have bought them if I couldn't afford them. But I just feel that I have spent $$$$ and gotten nothing in return. But if someone can positively tell me exact why they died and that it was my fault, then I will never post in here again.

BTW, another board member had 2 of 4 rays die the next day also. He got them from the same place.
 
When i acculumlate rays i will open up the bag, and put water from my tank directly into that bag, every 15 minutes ill add more. and ill do this for about 45minutes each time adding a little more water, then I dump the ray into the new tank. If the 20 gallon wasnt filtered or didnt have any water movement, that might have added a little to the stress of the rays. Also if you do decide to get some more rays you might want to make a divider to keep the other fish from getting to close to it when it is first introduced. There is alot of stress involved in shipping and this might help in the future
 
turkeyboy85;2985111; said:
When i acculumlate rays i will open up the bag, and put water from my tank directly into that bag, every 15 minutes ill add more. and ill do this for about 45minutes each time adding a little more water, then I dump the ray into the new tank. If the 20 gallon wasnt filtered or didnt have any water movement, that might have added a little to the stress of the rays. Also if you do decide to get some more rays you might want to make a divider to keep the other fish from getting to close to it when it is first introduced. There is alot of stress involved in shipping and this might help in the future

This is a great way to kill a ray with ammonia, especially if shipped for any length of time. You will drive the pH of the water up when you open the bag and drive it up higher as you add your water (unless kept at very low hardness and pH) this will increase the toxicity of the ammonia at a rapid rate causing unnecessary stress/harm to the fish. I know that you have done it before and had no problems, that is not the point, the chemistry is undeniable.
 
tank125;2985203; said:
This is a great way to kill a ray with ammonia, especially if shipped for any length of time. You will drive the pH of the water up when you open the bag and drive it up higher as you add your water (unless kept at very low hardness and pH) this will increase the toxicity of the ammonia at a rapid rate causing unnecessary stress/harm to the fish. I know that you have done it before and had no problems, that is not the point, the chemistry is undeniable.

so what would you suggest? this is basicly a drip method...
 
jwong1024;2985077; said:
I was told that the rays were qurantined for a couple of weeks aready. I was told when I decided to order that the rays weren't ready yet and waited about a week before they shipped.

I am not bashing the vendor in anyway. I have said nothing but good things in my threads and post. I just feel that there could ve been something that was done to prevent this. If the rays have to be quarntined longer or better supplier to customer communication on how to handle the rays properly.

I am still a novice at ray keeping I will admit. This forum has helped me alot. I have sucessfully kept a pair of retics for awhile now. I would have to say hystrix should not be that much more difficult. I am beginning to believe that the rays had parasite problems. I noticed that they died after they ate the night before. All 3 rays were eating and everything. 2 females lasted 2 days and the male lasted 10 days. When the first ray died, it had blood traces in its anus and the skin looked like it was peeling abit. The second ray died it just turned really dark patterns. When I first saw it died, I though to myself wow her colors is already coming it? Then I realized it wasn't breathing. When the third one died, I was there to see it die. I curled abit and had poop stuck in its butt, like it was very hard to pass. It had dark colors too like the second one. The poop was redish color and had a whiteish paste to it. Parasite? I was feeding them cut up night crawlers. I don't believe the worms were tainted because the retics are still alive and they eat them too.

As far has my tank setup. 125gl long with PFS substrate, 2 fluval 405, 3 emperor 400. All filters have carbon, bio media, and sponge filter. Tankmates are 18in silver aro, 1 red gold severum, 2 green severum, 1 pink con, 2 small plecos.

Water parameters are 0 amonia less than 50 nitrite and 0 nitrate. Water temp always at 84F and I do about 3lbs per 100 gal of salt. PH is right at 7. There is 2 med size pieces of driftwood and 2 stones.

I acclimate them by putting them in a 20gal container with water from my tank, while they are still in the shipping bags. After about any hour I release them into another 20gal container with water from my tank and cover it to keep it dark. The next morning I feed alittle black worm and then I introduce them to my tank. Then I do another WC, first done when I took out water to acclimate.

I decided not to quarntine them because I was old there already were. I was planning on use the 125 as a grow out, until I get a 220 next year when my roommate moves out.

So you guys can flame away on what you think I am doing wrong. Or why I should not be ray keeper. I see 2 victims here, the dead rays, and me. As far as the money issue, I wouldn't have bought them if I couldn't afford them. But I just feel that I have spent $$$$ and gotten nothing in return. But if someone can positively tell me exact why they died and that it was my fault, then I will never post in here again.

BTW, another board member had 2 of 4 rays die the next day also. He got them from the same place.

Sorry if you are taking it personally as flaming. My comments are not meant that way. QT is always necessary, it is too protect your current stock. Next time, no matter what species the ray is or who/where it is from, set-up a QT ahead of time so that it has time to cycle, become established, use soft, acidic water and avoid that HEAVY SALT DOSE!

That is nice that the seller held and QT'd first, very unusual, but little to protect your current stock. Reasons: sellers re-use shipping bags, use nets that touch multiple tanks, hands that touch multiple tanks, tanks may be in the same room as other non-QT tanks, tanks may not have been sterilized first, etc... The only comfort you can glean from a seller QT'ing is that the fish in question likely be free of any aggressive parasites and will have had time put some weight on so that the pre-ship purge/fast will be less detrimental to the fish. Assuming that QT was for 3-4 weeks.

If I were you, in response to this last post, I would QT next time and buy older/larger individuals as a modification.
 
I really don't think you did anything wrong.

These rays were small and the process of being caught, shipped, shipped again and all the acclamations it went through between could have been just too much for them.

Maybe next time try the drip method. It might minimize the stress a little.
If the distrib says they were qt I would still separate them into their own qt tank because they could still have internal parasites. There you can medicate and keep a close eye on them.
I don't think anyone here thinks you shouldn't keep rays.
We have all been there before. So for someone to think that makes them a hypocrite.

We are just trying to help ya ^^
 
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