what are good food brands?

  • We are currently upgrading MFK. thanks! -neo
RD.;4622699; said:
or are they coming from some semi-intensive pond set up located on the outskirts of Bangkok, and later preserved with BHA, BHT, and ethoxyquin in order to remain stable over the long haul?
http://www.importgenius.com/shipments/ocean-nutrition-asia-co.html


Interesting. I did notice that NLS Small Fish Formula contains ethoxyquin.

I know the use of ethoxyquin is frowned upon in dog food. Is it the same in fish. Has any one every done research on the effects of ethoxyquin on fish in the long term?
 
Autumn ---- ethoxyquin has not been listed on any of their labels in years. You might still find the odd older label showing up on a container, or a description online, but NLS never did add ethoxyquin to their food.
There is a BIG difference between a food that due to its raw ingredients contains a miniscule inclusion of ethoxyquin, and one where not only ethoxyquin, but also BHA & BHT are being added directly. It could be a difference of 20 ppm, vs 200+ ppm. (or higher)


Buddha - I'm sorry to hear that you haven't been able to get your fish to eat NLS. My experience is that I have never had a fish that I couldn't train to eat NLS. (fresh water fish)

There is no way one single brand of any thing can have every thing your fish need.

That's an interesting observation, perhaps then you or someone else here can share what it is that your fishes diet has in it, that NLS doesn't? Please be specific, such as what amino acid, fatty acid, etc is missing when fed an exclusive diet of a properly balanced food.

Fish do require a varied diet, but if that one single food is made from a wide variety of high quality raw ingredients, the varied diet that many hobbyists seek can indeed be found in one single formula. If one was to take all of the various ingredients found in a typical wide variety of formulas, and create a food that contained all of these various ingredients in a proper ratio and balance, would it not be the same as feeding all of these foods separately?

Of course it would.

In captivity, many marine Butterflyfish that only consume coral polyps in the wild, would rather starve to death than switch food. In the wild Harlequin Shrimp eat only the feet of the Starfish, Monarch Butterflies (caterpillar) only eat milkweed, and Koala Bears typically only eat Eucalyptus leaves.

Using your reasoning, due to their diet all of the above should have become extinct thousands of years ago. :)


will challenge anyone who has feed there fish just nls or any other brand for that matter with no variety to post non photo shopped pics and i garantee that the fish that eat a variety(no matter what brands)will out shine the fish that are just raised on one brand of pellets.

I could post pics of freshwater species fed NLS exclusively from now until the end of time, but most freshwater species don't pose much of a challenge as far as just keeping their minimum nutrient values met.


So allow me to raise the stakes even higher, and actually make this a challenge.

Find me 1 person on the planet that has documented proof of raising more Moorish Idol in captivity than the creator of New Life. Or 1 person who has documented proof of keeping Moorish Idol thriving in captivity for over 5 yrs. Even today, due to its nutrient demands many marine hobbyists still consider this species doomed to die in captivity.

Kieron Dodds, from Tropical Fish Hobbyist magazine wrote an article on the Moorish Idol in 2008, titled; "Still Impossible After All These Years - Keeping Moorish Idol". He clearly admits that the main intent of his article was to discourage anyone from acquiring this species, as he feels this species has almost no chance in being kept alive in captivity beyond a very short duration.

At one point in the article he states "Pablo Tepoot is perhaps the single individual who has had the most success with this species"

What most people would have considered impossible 15 or 20 yrs ago, or what many of the so called experts state can't be done, Pablo Tepoot has been doing for years.

waruna2.jpg
 
RD.;4623321; said:
Autumn ---- ethoxyquin has not been listed on any of their labels in years. You might still find the odd older label showing up on a container, or a description online, but NLS never did add ethoxyquin to their food.
There is a BIG difference between a food that due to its raw ingredients contains a miniscule inclusion of ethoxyquin, and one where not only ethoxyquin, but also BHA & BHT are being added directly. It could be a difference of 20 ppm, vs 200+ ppm. (or higher)


I checked my lfs website for the NLS, as I have always fed Hikari MicroPellets, and the ingredients listed included ethoxyquin. Here is a link:

http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/prod/213060/i/10/product.web

Ingredients are listed as:
Krill, herring, wheat flour, algae meal, soybean isolate, fish oil, beta carotene, spirulina, garlic, vitamin A acetate, D-activated animal sterol, vitamin B12, riboflavin, niacin, folic acid, calcium pantothenate, pyridoxine hydrochloride, thiamine, biotin, DL-alphatocopheral, L-ascorbyl-2-polyphosphate, choline chloride, cobalt sulfate, copper sulfate, ferrous sulfate, manganese sulfate, ethylenediamine dihydrochiodide, ethoxyquin.

I will double check the actual container next time I am over there and see if it matches the online description.

If fish food labels are set up the same way as dog/cat food label, I assume that since it is listed as the last ingredient that is was added to the krill and herring immediately after they were caught and not added during the manufacturing of the actual food.
 
That online description is outdated.
 
AutumnEffect;4622906; said:
Interesting. I did notice that NLS Small Fish Formula contains ethoxyquin.

I know the use of ethoxyquin is frowned upon in dog food. Is it the same in fish. Has any one every done research on the effects of ethoxyquin on fish in the long term?

"What most hobbyists fail to understand is that every fish food that uses marine proteins such as Krill, Fish, Shrimp, etc., will contain a small amount of ethoxyquin, as will some fats that are added to the formula. The United States Coast Guard regulations (Subpart 148.04 -9) requires any vessel entering US waters that contains fish meal, to have the fish meal preserved with ethoxyquin. This is required by law for the safety and health issues that can arise if fish meal is not preserved properly. I personally know of no manufacturer that makes their own in-house fish meal on site, which means that if fish meal is being used in a food, any type of pet food, there will be at least a small amount of ethoxyquin in the final formula."

Further reading: http://nlsfishfood.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=29&Itemid=63&limit=1&limitstart=5
 
buddha1200;4622898; said:
None of my fish will eat nls,so what good is ingredients if they dont eat it. I see plenty of folks on here that say their fish will not eat it . So the bottom line for me is i have to feed what they will eat and as much variety i can get them to eat. There is no single food that has every thing a fish need(variety is the key to healthy vibrant fish)I will challenge anyone who has feed there fish just nls or any other brand for that matter with no variety to post non photo shopped pics and i garantee that the fish that eat a variety(no matter what brands)will out shine the fish that are just raised on one brand of pellets. There is no way one single brand of any thing can have every thing your fish need.

I think that's simply due to people giving up on switching food. When you have a fish switching from something flavored with msg or high fat that seems very tasty to the fish, and then you throw in NLS which lacks these things, OF COURSE the fish won't always immediately take to it.
Guess what? If I had no choice in what I ate, and I was only fed cheeseburgers, French fries, and milk shakes for most my life, and then you tried to switch me to a diet of healthy vegetables and fruits and lean meat, I would be pissed. But just because burgers taste good, it doesn't mean it is good for you.
My fish did NOT immediately take to NLS. I simply did not offer anything else. After a week they were eating it, and now they love it. I maintain a wide variety of dietary requirements in the fish of my 33 gallon (my initial NLS experiment tank) such as barbs, Cory cats, loaches, and a BN Pleco. ALL eat NLS exclusively and all are thriving.
The results have sold me on NLS. Plain and simple.
 
FYI - there actually are now preservatives that can be used other than ethoxyquin to preserve the fats in raw ingredients such as fish meal (Naturox being one) but very few (if any?) fish food manufacturers use them. The reason being is fish meal is a primary ingredient in most fish foods, and it can become rancid very quickly if not fully & properly preserved straight away. So you can put your $$$ towards the best fish meal on the market, and the most effective preservative, or you can go with brand A that uses less effective, more costly, but more natural antioxidants. These types of antioxidants also typically equate to a much shorter shelf life of the product.


New Life utilizes mixed tocopherols, vitamin A & C, etc to naturally preserve their food, but at the same time won't make any claims about their products being 100% ethoxyquin free. The max level of ethoxyquin found in any NLS product has never exceeded 25 ppm, or 0.0025% of the final product.

That is but a fraction of the amount of ethoxyquin that is allowed by the Food & Drug Administration as an antioxidant for preservation of color in the production of chili powder, paprika, and ground chili. (max 100 ppm)


Seriously, I would be far more concerned about the level of nitrates in my tank, than the amount of ethoxyquin found in NLS. :)
 
I have an 11 inch L-114 pleco and a 4 inch L-600 pleco. (both carnivores) also a shoal of black striped red hook silver dollars. These fish are not at all common at the size I have them and have been eating Strictly NLS for the last 2 years and are in perfect condition. I will not change foods ever. Sorry no pics take the info or leave it.
 
MonsterFishKeepers.com