What are you feeding YOUR fish?!

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xEchOx

Fire Eel
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Mar 2, 2006
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It has recently come to my attention that a lot of the fish foods I have been buying and feeding my fish for several years are not as high in quality as I thought they were. I have been reading a lot lately about Ethoxyquin.

Kmuda of oscarfish.com said:
Ethoxyquin is a fat preservative commonly found in pet foods. It is required by US law to be added as a preservative to any fish meals imported by boat (primarily to prevent fires aboard ship; unpreserved fish meals have been known to spontaneously combust). While it prevents fish meals from becoming rancid, it has also been linked to several pet ailments to include cancer, liver failure, and birth defects (amongst others). The "maximum allowable residue of Ethoxyquin in eggs, meat, poultry, apples, pears, poultry fat and livers for HUMAN use is 0.5ppm. In ANIMAL feeds, the maximum allowable concentration of Ethoxyquin is 150ppm."
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Have you ever had a fish die suddenly or develop a tumor or bloat for no reason at all? Perhaps the answer was in the food. I've been looking for a way to avoid Ethoxyquin and other potentially dangerous additives - Synthetic Vitamin K (K3), BHT Butylated hydroxytoluene, and various Artificial coloring agents can all be toxic to our fish.

It saddens me to say that very very few fish foods pass this test. Almost all contain synthetic vitamin K, and many contain Ethoxyquin - even the foods that do not list it on the Ingredients list, likely still contain it. The primary ingredients of most fish foods contain at least a fish meal - which by law must be preserved with ethoxyquin if it is imported by boat.

I used to follow a strict diet consisting primarily of pellet foods, probably close to 95% pellets. But now I am going to back off the pellets in hopes of reducing the total amount of potential harmful toxins. I'm thinking closer to 50% pellets, 50% frozen/freeze dried foods but I am having a hard time coming up with a solid plan. I'm a creature of habit myself and this news has really shaken my foothold on what I thought I knew about fish food nutrition.


What are you guys feeding your cichilds? I have an oscar that is over 7 years old now and I'd love to see him hit that 10 year mark. Anyone out there got any pointers? Advice? Comments?
 
sandofarms said:
NLS strongly supports the use of ethoxyquin, as it improves fish health.
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How can Ethoxyquin both "improve fish health" and be toxic at the same time?

Taken from the link you posted
Ethoxyquin has been shown to be slightly toxic to fish
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Maybe I do sound a bit fanatical, but if your best source is wikipedia, and the companies that use ethoxyquin in most of their products, I think my arguement stands. Find me a reputable unbiased source that says Ethoxyquin "improves fish health". And I'll go about my paranoid way. :D
 
I concede that wikipedia may not be the best source, but I think I missed the source of the information that ethoxyquin is toxic to fish.
 
Many threads on good and healthy food. Grab some NLS, it's as clean as you can get. Back to your question. I feed NLS as staple. Xtreme and Hikari for variety.

As F1 said, just don't overfeed and you'll be fine - with whatever you decide to feed with.
 
Worth repeating for those that didn't catch it the first time ..........

http://nlsfishfood.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=29&Itemid=63&limit=1&limitstart=5

When used accordingly, there is absolutely nothing wrong with using ethoxyquin as a preservative. The FDA approved the use of ethoxyquin as a preservative for both humans and pets, and for decades the maximum amount allowed in pet food was 150 PPM.

In July 1997, after assessing the results of the latest study on ethoxyquin, the FDA's Center for Veterinary Medicine asked that the maximum amount of the preservative be voluntary reduced to 75 parts per million in complete dog foods. The FDA stated that the earlier limit of 150 ppm "may not provide an adequate margin of safety in lactating female dogs and possibly puppies." The reason being that lactating female dogs generally consume far more food (2-3 times) than non lactating females, hence an increased level of every substance in any food will occur. The study showed ethoxyquin levels of 150 ppm had no adverse health effects at maintenance levels, but that by reducing the max amount to 75 ppm it would create an additional safety margin for lactating females and their puppies.

To date, the FDA has found no scientific or medical evidence that ethoxyquin used at approved levels is injurious to human or animal health. Also, the FDA has found no documentation of the claims of harm to any animal. Not even one.

Please keep in mind that almost everything and anything can become toxic at high enough levels, including fat-soluble vitamins. No nutritionist would recommend completely eliminating vitamin A, B, D, E and K from the diet just because high levels can be toxic, yet this exact type of logic is what's used when most people discuss preservatives such as ethoxyquin. When used in small amounts to prevent rancidity, preservatives are valuable and important components of the diet.
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The only thing that should be corrected in that article is that since it was originally written, there have been fish meals produced in North America that do not use ethoxyquin. At least that's what they claim.

Also, something that Kmuda failed to mention is that this preservative is also allowed up to 3 ppm on apples and is also used as a color preservative in paprika, chili powder, and ground chili, at levels of up to 100 ppm. All deemed safe for human use, including infants.




How can Ethoxyquin both "improve fish health" and be toxic at the same time?
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The same way that Vitamin A does.


LOTS of things in this world that are VERY healthy for fish, and even humans, can be toxic at elevated levels.


Using data from studies where excessive amounts of any substance are used on animals, certainly doesn't prove that the substance is in the least bit harmful when used at appropriate or approved levels. The problem lies in the fact that you seldom see ALL the facts & data, only those snippets that support the view of those posting the information.

I can cite numerous independent studies performed by accredited laboratories that will show that vitamins A, D, and E can also cause cancer, and can be deadly toxic to dogs, cats, rats, and even fish, when inappropriate levels are fed to these animals.

What does that prove?

The only reason that this preservative ever came into question, was due to a study performed on rats back in 1987 where the dose level of 5,000 ppm ethoxyquin, which is FAR higher than approved levels in pet food, suggested a carcinogenic potential.
 
Thanks for bringing some facts. RD just so you know Ive read quite a few threads about food and you consistently brought a solid arguement for NLS. I finally decided to switch my fish over to NLS from Hikari and after a few days they really took to it. I started seeing color in my fish that cichlid gold never brought out. I do add freeze dried blood worms and crickets for variety but as far as a staple goes I'm all about NLS now and will not go back
 
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