What are your thoughts on fish like Pacu being sold

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Jack Dempsey
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I'm a bit midi-evil, I believe the law should be made, that when you buy a fish you and the seller sign a contract, if it gets too big for your tank, you have a limited amount of time to get another tank, and if you can't house ihe fisht properly, either you, or the person who sold it to you are required to eat it.
For those a little squeamish about eating Pacu, watch the Netflix show, Somebody Feed Phil, the episode from Buenos Aires.
Here in Panama, we eat Peacock Bass, and Black Belt Cichlids all the time, among others.
P-bass fillets below.
View attachment 1364785
I want pbass fillets! Jealous af rn.

On topic: my daughter has wanted an Oscar for a long time. Having just dipped my toe back in the hobby with a 40 gal breeder tank, we could not house an Oscar. Had that 40 gal for 2 years before I got a 180 to reseal at a great price. As soon as I got the worn out tank my daughter bought an Oscar and placed it in a 20gal tall while I was refurbish the 180 and welding a new stand for it. Oscars get abused cuz they have such a strong personality when you see them in WalMart. Since I am a partially educated aquarist, I prevented my daughter from abusing one herself. It would be easy to have had it happen though. Instead, she has a beautiful Oscar that is a complete idiot (runs into everything) and she loves it.
Education is really the only good answer. Too bad people don't like to learn, or at least don't like to be told how they are doing things wrong. Pride gets in the way and ignorance abounds.
 
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jaws7777

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On topic: my daughter has wanted an Oscar for a long time. Having just dipped my toe back in the hobby with a 40 gal breeder tank, we could not house an Oscar. Had that 40 gal for 2 years before I got a 180 to reseal at a great price. As soon as I got the worn out tank my daughter bought an Oscar and placed it in a 20gal tall while I was refurbish the 180 and welding a new stand for it. Oscars get abused cuz they have such a strong personality when you see them in WalMart. Since I am a partially educated aquarist, I prevented my daughter from abusing one herself. It would be easy to have had it happen though. Instead, she has a beautiful Oscar that is a complete idiot (runs into everything) and she loves it.
Education is really the only good answer. Too bad people don't like to learn, or at least don't like to be told how they are doing things wrong. Pride gets in the way and ignorance abounds.
Great job teaching her the right way to approach the hobby.
 

RD.

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Along with giving online sellers more of a competitive edge over the mom and pop lfs.
Since when does anyone care about fair trade and competition between brick and mortar LFS's, and online vendors? Is that a joke? LOL Consumers shop wherever items are cheaper, and most convenient. Period. Online vendors already have a competitive edge over most mom & pop operations, which is why many people order online. (dry goods and live fish) It's also one of the main reasons for the decline of mom & pop stores, along with many malls across NA.


I personally support additional regulations, fees, etc, along with additional education. Too bad they weren't put in place 50 yrs ago before the morons of the world ruined most of what we had going on in North America.


And FYI ....... tank raised warm water fish, fed pellets, would taste like crap. Kind of like comparing farmed salmon, to one just pulled out of the Skeena River.
 
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krichardson

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And FYI ....... tank raised warm water fish, fed pellets, would taste like crap. Kind of like comparing farmed salmon, to one just pulled out of the Skeena River.
Interesting,as a lover of fresh fish flesh I would love to be able to taste compare but I do not have access to any wild caught salmon.
 

jaws7777

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Since when does anyone care about fair trade and competition between brick and mortar LFS's, and online vendors? Is that a joke? LOL Consumers shop wherever items are cheaper, and most convenient. Period. Online vendors already have a competitive edge over most mom & pop operations, which is why many people order online. (dry goods and live fish) It's also one of the main reasons for the decline of mom & pop stores, along with many malls across NA.


I personally support additional regulations, fees, etc, along with additional education. Too bad they weren't put in place 50 yrs ago before the morons of the world ruined most of what we had going on in North America.
I dont know if this is a rare time we are partially agreeing on something. But no not a joke, just my thoughts on how forcing something as an online sale would do nothing at all

Im not losing sleep over the the competitive edge online sales has over mom and pops. But it still would be another advantage given to online vendors. Infact i couldnt get high quality specimens of the fish i keep at an lfs. I have to basically jump through hoops every time i purchase one. Doesnt stop me though. I guess my thought is taking a fish like pacu and saying they can no longer be sold at an lfs isnt going to change much. You can literally buy a house and sign all the legal documentation online never leaving your living room, ordering a fish online is easy peasy. I wish this werent the case. Id much rather be able to see the fish in person before purchasing but those days are long gone.

Wanting regs or permits isnt the end of the world just imo they hardly ever stay put (not talking invasive species) things start out nice... then not soo much.

And FYI ....... tank raised warm water fish, fed pellets, would taste like crap. Kind of like comparing farmed salmon, to one just pulled out of the Skeena River.
My wifes been on a rampage with farm raised food for a while now. Smh grocery bill sucks.
 
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RD.

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Back in the good old days, we used to agree on a lot of things, Frank. lol

I was just thinking about the earlier comment Zack made with regarding eating farmed rainbows, vs wild.

Just to add to the potential food aspect...

I know a lfs owner who had a customer bring in a giant pacu and nobody could of housed it around here. He eventually ended up cooking it and it was the most disgusting fish hes ever eaten so he says! Fish raised on pellets and other junk generally taste bad. For instance rainbow trout that are freshly stocked when caught for the dinner table will have a off what bland meat but after the summer the stockies that held over and have ben eating bugs and other fish have a bright orange meat equivalent to salmon.
Very true, native freshwater crustaceans and shrimp can turn the flesh of farmed fish into a much nicer overall coloration, but most farmed salmon are also orange/red, from synthetic coloring agents such as Carophyll Pink and or Carophyll Red. For chicken farms they use Carophyll yellow. Yummy. Without that synthetic food coloring agent a farmed salmons flesh is grey. Not very appealing to consumers.



Unless someone is violating a law, or using anti-competitive practices, it's pretty much a free world out there when it comes to selling and buying. I buy online as well, but only because I am forced to. If it wasn't a 3-4 hour round trip I have a couple shops south of me that I would support 100%. I just don't think that one can use that as part of the argument. Online vendors have had an advantage from the get go.

Additional laws/regs always suck to start, and sometimes suck even more as time goes on. I miss some of my freedom from yesteryears, I won't deny that. But at the same time sometimes the only real option is change for the greater good. It's rarely perfect, but it's often better than doing nothing. I would be violating the TOS if I went in to detail here, but I'm sure some can understand what I am saying if they compare different nations, and some of their various laws.
 

Belly up

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I probably should not post to this type of topic because I am only here for a short period in the morning then I have to start my work day. When I do post and someone replies to my comment I cant respond. I know some people suggest a permit being required to buy a species that grows "large" (a subjective term). That begs the question; since when has a permit prevented anyone from violating whatever conditions are laid down by said permit? Depending on regulation is a slippery slope friends. Once you let that camel get its nose in the tent there is no stopping it. It might start with arapaima and giant carp but it will never stop with those. Next it will be still large fish but not as large. Eventually they will have mandatory minimums. Then you will have to prove you have a big enough tank. I have been through this with Michigans DNR concern captive wildlife. Do you really want government employees coming to your home to inspect your aquariums?

Michigan`s (and the Great Lakes) biggest invasive problem wouldn't even be effected by such regulation. Most of our issues stem from commercial shipping. Large ocean going ships dumping their ballast tanks to exchange the water for our fresh water. We now have two ivasive crayfish, a couple of mussels and several gobies and other fish, all from shipping. Total aquarium fish - 2. The weather loach in one creek and a few goldfish in southern Michigan lakes.
 

jaws7777

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Back in the good old days, we used to agree on a lot of things, Frank. lol
Maybe because instead of there being 1 cranky old man.... now theres 2 lol


Unless someone is violating a law, or using anti-competitive practices, it's pretty much a free world out there when it comes to selling and buying. I buy online as well, but only because I am forced to. If it wasn't a 3-4 hour round trip I have a couple shops south of me that I would support 100%. I just don't think that one can use that as part of the argument. Online vendors have had an advantage from the get go.
Oh i totally agree. The competitive advantage wasnt the focal point of my argument just an unintended consequence if this were to happen. I wish i could purchase my fish locally. I forgot what its like to walk up to a tank and have your pick of the litter. The point is if i dont mind jumping through hoops and taking long drives to airports to pick up my fish what makes these guys assume there will be this huge drop in sales of fish like pacu ?
Theres a whole section on here of members that jump through the same hoops...and geez thats only the active posters.


Additional laws/regs always suck to start, and sometimes suck even more as time goes on. I miss some of my freedom from yesteryears, I won't deny that. But at the same time sometimes the only real option is change for the greater good. It's rarely perfect, but it's often better than doing nothing. I would be violating the TOS if I went in to detail here, but I'm sure some can understand what I am saying if they compare different nations, and some of their various laws.
This is the part where allot of us are split. These guys dont realize that at the present time there is no way legislation would get passed banning one business owner (lfs) from selling the same product another business owner (online sales) can sell. Who knows how long until im proven wrong but this isnt happening in an open free market system. I agree online sales kills lfs sales but to put that on paper in black and white as a regulation is absolutely an unfair competitive advantage. Trust me they arent going to touch that.

What they are asking for is gov regulation, point out how this is a bad idea and they cry about ideology or use the size and value of someones tank to decide that slapping an additional fee on that person is fair. :barf:



They want a permit or reg for large fish . When asked how large the fish nerds to be, who enforces it, who funds it, ect ect the reply is the agency or non profit will figure that out. One suggestion was 20 bucks as a permit fee. What happens when the next complaint is about fish that reach 12 inches... do we keep on going ?

Maybe it becomes wc fish too.

What happens when swami's 20$ fee turns into 50 or 60. Maybe we get a genius politician who says screw the yearly permit. Lets go with a smaller fee but place it on every fish sale of a certain size.

Now what happens with private sales. Do i need to make sure your permit is up to date ? How do i do this when you live on the other side of ththe country ? Who get in trouble if there is a forged permit ?

What about under the table/black market sales ? TOS...cant expand but this too had unintended consequences.

None of them have a remotely logic reply to these questions other than.... well really smart people will figure it out. Smh if i expand on this statement the thread will get nuked.

Sometimes just throwing crap at a problem just for the sake of feeling better about ourselves makes the problem even worse. Again cant expand...tos
 

LBDave

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On the O's thing- I'd be down to pay $20 for an Oscar permit as well! Maybe I'm a bleeding heart liberal (consider myself a moderate tbh) but the animal welfare comes before most other concerns to me- certainly miles ahead of the shopping convenience of pet owners. 2' is kind of an arbitrary limit I thought of, because of the very negative reactions some people have to the idea of the permits at all. if the limit was 2', it would still let people buy small fish willy-nilly, and keep things like pacus out of the hands of casual impulse shoppers at Petco.

Basically, my opinion is this; there is a problem here. Large fish are far more often than not, neglected, and are very easily available. You can't educate everyone, and beyond that, you can't make everyone care. The information is all readily available; but the vast majority of people don't bother to look it up, and from working in fish stores for years, I can tell you that many people even after being educated, decide the fish's health is less important to them than their short-term amusement. I don't see a single way to stop this rampant neglect other than some sort of government intervention, requiring a permit or something similar. If there was another way, I'd be happy to hear it.
So you can't educate so government should step in and direct us what to do. That's not liberal that's socialism. Not only does it not work (see Jaws posts) but it goes down that road. We are uneducated thus we need to be lead. How is it that you don't see the big brother aspect? Oh it's just a $20 fee. Don't worry. It's really the best thing for all of us!
Well count me out. I will not pay it and I will not be directed on how to keep my fish.
 
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RD.

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I wouldn't lose any sleep over this, outside of invasive species big brother doesn't care, nor do they have the man power to be knocking on anyone's door. It's mostly regulated by Fish & Wildlife, another underpaid an undermanned section of the govt.

I've killed and eaten thousands of fish, at minimal cost, all sponsored by the fine folks at the F&W division.
 
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