Spankbelly;1862460; said:
Very powerful words there. This is what our country was founded on people!!!
What does freedom mean to Americans?
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Very powerful words there. This is what our country was founded on people!!!
i just know that i have seen 1st hand the sacrifices that men and women have made for the US to be free. its been going on since the form of are nation and still happens today. young americans sacrifice all they have, there lives for there fellow americans to live free. even if that means there free to protest agaist them. to me freedom means being proud of who we are,and provideing and shareing freedom to those who cant have it
I'm not going to quote at all because it would just take up too much room. 
I fear that both of you, spank and scuba, are misunderstanding my (and rmorse) point on the calling yourself a Canadian or American. I am not say, nor did I that you were not an America. This was a point of yours that you laid out before I ever said anything about it, hence the "prepared material" thing I said earlier. Our point on this is pretty simple, I am an American, I live in the US. You are a Canadian, you live in Canada. You made it known that you think we are at fault for assuming that we are the only Americans. I think this would be accurate, however I'm not sure if anyone actually disputed this, but I don't remember all the posts. My problem came when you got upset at the guy who said he was an American, because you think (and depending on the context, rightfully so) you are an American. That's why I asked if I could call myself a Canadian, because I felt as if you were pigeon-holing us, by condemning someone for calling himself an American, while at the same time trying to justify your personal use of the name of your country in the form of Canadian.
Sorry for the mis-spellings by the way, I'm not great at typing, and sometimes the fingers just make their own habits.
Also, I think it is important to note that when you first responded to my long post, you made a couple of statements about how that post was better put together, and "that was more like it" or something along those lines. You see this is part of my point. You for some reason had a prejudice, or a stereotype that you have placed on Americans that is simply not true. Your first instinct was to think that I was just another bully American who doesn't know his head from a hole in the ground. I think you yourself said as much.
I fear that both of you, spank and scuba, are misunderstanding my (and rmorse) point on the calling yourself a Canadian
or American. I am not say, nor did I that you were not an America. This was a point of yours that you laid out before I ever said anything about it, hence the "prepared material" thing I said earlier. Our point on this is pretty simple, I am an American, I live in the US. You are a Canadian, you live in Canada. You made it known that you think we are at fault for assuming that we are the only Americans. I think this would be accurate, however I'm not sure if anyone actually disputed this, but I don't remember all the posts. My problem came when you got upset at the guy who said he was an American, because you think (and depending on the context, rightfully so) you are an American. That's why I asked if I could call myself a Canadian, because I felt as if you were pigeon-holing us, by condemning someone for calling himself an American, while at the same time trying to justify your personal use of the name of your country in the form of Canadian.Sorry for the mis-spellings by the way, I'm not great at typing, and sometimes the fingers just make their own habits.
Also, I think it is important to note that when you first responded to my long post, you made a couple of statements about how that post was better put together, and "that was more like it" or something along those lines. You see this is part of my point. You for some reason had a prejudice, or a stereotype that you have placed on Americans that is simply not true. Your first instinct was to think that I was just another bully American who doesn't know his head from a hole in the ground. I think you yourself said as much.
scubasteve06;1861442; said:He lives in the America's. Therefore he can all him self an american. He is a citizen of whatever province in canada he lives in therefore he is a canadien. We don't live in that province so therefore we can't be a canadien. Does that make sense now? I'm not disagreeing with you yoshii we agree on a lot of things, but I see this a little differently. When it comes to good politics you have to see both sides and not just one, that is the problem with politics nowadays no one cares about each other and its cut throat.
Spankbelly;1861901; said:
I actually think these two statements oppose each other. We as Americans are being told by others around us, mostly from countries and gov's that have failed, that we need to be more focused on doing things other peoples way because we need to be more open, or that "we only see things one way". Well, I do see things one way, and that's the way of freedom, how this country was made strong. That doesn't mean I'm being ignorant, this is a falsehood perpetuated by a group of people who fear the US for what makes it great. I'm not just going to accept what others tell me because they think it's not fair the way we do business. Sorry, but we (not just US now) have what others want and that is freedom, I'm not going to compromise with people who don't share the same ideals, because they are wrong, and there should be no room for watering down freedom. Part of the problem in our country and around the world is that people are afraid to say "this is right, that is wrong" everybody wants to sit in the gray area, and do the "whats good for me is ok, and whats good for you is ok" sorry but this is not logical, and just plain wrong. As if we should have told Hitler that he is entitled to his own opinions and we shouldn't try to push our ideas on him. He was wrong, someone needed to stop him, and we did it (or helped) by staying true to what we believe and not compromising.
hamato_yoshii;1863144; said:I'm not going to quote at all because it would just take up too much room.
I fear that both of you, spank and scuba, are misunderstanding my (and rmorse) point on the calling yourself a Canadian
Sorry for the mis-spellings by the way, I'm not great at typing, and sometimes the fingers just make their own habits.
Also, I think it is important to note that when you first responded to my long post, you made a couple of statements about how that post was better put together, and "that was more like it" or something along those lines. You see this is part of my point. You for some reason had a prejudice, or a stereotype that you have placed on Americans that is simply not true. Your first instinct was to think that I was just another bully American who doesn't know his head from a hole in the ground. I think you yourself said as much.
OK.
dragonfish;1861183; said:
I know!!!! I was not expecting a 12 page thread! Feel free to keep posting though, there are some very interesting views on here.
Here's my thesis as of now;
"Freedom is the freedom to decide what freedom means."
If you think about it, it's the dear truth. We get to decide what our freedoms are, though not directly, but through elections and higher officials.
rmorse;1861388; said:
No, he has a somewhat of a flawed point.
Look, yes, I am well aware that you live in North America. Do not insult my intelligence (Spank) by suggesting that I need to do a geography lesson.
Oh, I wont send you any maps.
Might be easier. They dont have many words. Mostly just crayon coloring and the names of countries.
Oh boy! Broke the truce already.
Sorry about that.
What if I need a lesson? Maybe Im wrong about this. You sure seem pretty convinced.
Pasted from my word processor dictionary.
Sold to me by Microsoft.
Made in America.
North A·mer·i·ca
North A·mer·i·ca [nàwrth ə mérrikə]
the third largest continent in the world, comprising Greenland, Canada, the United States, and Mexico
-North A·mer·i·can, adj n
I forgot Greenland was part of the family.
Guess Im as thoughtless as you.
Hey Greenlanders! Howya doing?
I dont imagine many of them are interested in tropical fish.
Greenland is not very green.
It was intentionally misnamed by its discoverer. To attract unsuspecting settlers.
Names are important huh?
A·mer·i·ca
A·mer·i·ca [ə mérrikə]
1. See United States (informal)
2. N, S, and Central America: a landmass comprising North America, South America, and Central America (formal)
3. N. America: North America (informal)
[Early 16th century. From Americus , Latinized form of the first name of Amerigo Vespucci (1454-1512), Italian navigator.]
Sensitivity issue:
The use of America to mean the United States may cause offense to people from Canada and Mexico, and should be avoided.
Oh really?
America does not mean just you? America formally means North, South and Central America. Hmmm.
You read the last part right?
America does not mean the United States. And its use as such is offensive to other Americans.
Shoot! Guess I was wrong.
Oh, no I wasnt.
OK. Well, what about America 1 informal see United States?
Whats that about?
Maybe America does mean U.S.A.
Lets take a look.
In the American dictionary.
Made in the U.S.A.
It's Sunday morning. What else do I have to do?
U·nit·ed States
U·nit·ed States [y ntəd stáyts]
federal republic in the continent of North America, consisting of 50 states.
Language: English
Currency: dollar
Capital: Washington, D.C
Population: 293,027,570 (2004)
Area: 9,826,630 sq km/3,794,083 sq mi Official name United States of America
Well thats interesting.
You only have 50 states? I could have sworn it was 52.
You learn something every day.
Oh look at that
Official name: United States of America.
United States of America. I live there. I am American.
Lets see
A·mer·i·can1
A·mer·i·can [ə mérrikən]
n (plural A·mer·i·cans)
somebody from United States: somebody who was born in or is a citizen of the United States (informal)
adj
1. of the United States: relating to the United States, its people, its culture, or the form of English spoken there (informal)
2. of the American continents: relating to \par North, South, and Central America (formal)
[Mid-16th century. From modern Latin Americanus , from America.]
-A·mer·i·can·ness, n
Yes. You are correct. You live in the United States of America specifically. Which is in the Americas.
I know you know that.
You are not stupid.
Obviously.
Im just checking the facts to see where I got confused.
Formally you do live in the Americas. You are American. Just like the rest of us.
But formally America does not mean United States of America, and should be avoided as such.
Because it is offensive.
To Americans.
The only thing that means United States of America is U.S.A.
And possibly McDonalds.
Using America informally to mean U.S.A is slang and wrong.
slang
slang [slang]
n (plural slangs)
1. very casual speech or writing: words, expressions, and usages that are casual, vivid, racy, or playful replacements for standard ones, are often short-lived, and are usually considered unsuitable for formal contexts
2. language of an exclusive group: a form of language used by a particular group of people, often deliberately created and used to exclude people outside the group a word that came from surfers slang
adj
in slang: belonging to, expressed in, or containing slang a slang dictionary
vti (past slanged, past participle slanged, present participle slang·ing, 3rd person present singular slangs)
use abusive language: to use abusive language, usually slang, or to use this to attack somebody verbally
[Mid-18th century. Origin unknown.]
-slang·i·ly, adv
-slang·i·ness, n
-slang·y, adj
language of an exclusive group
usually considered unsuitable for formal contexts
deliberately created and used to exclude people
to use abusive language to use this to attack somebody verbally
Says so right there.
In an American dictionary.
Made in the U.S.A.
But hey, ignore facts and plough on.
Insult half the word every time you speak your name.
Then wonder why some people dont like you so much.
Who cares about truth, justice and oh, never mind.
Canada. You live there. You are Canadian.
Ca·na·da
Ca·na·da [kánnədə]
federation occupying the northern half of North America and the second largest country in the world.
Language: English, French
Currency: Canadian dollar
Capital: Ottawa
Population: 32,507,874 (2004)
Area: 9,984,670 sq km/3,855,103 sq mi
Yes. Thats where I live.
In North America.
Same as you.
We are Americans.
BTW check the square mileage.
Mines bigger than yours.
That was a joke.
Yeah yeah, you have more bombs.
Congratulations.
Ca·na·di·an1
Ca·na·di·an [kə náydee ən]
adj
of Canada: relating to Canada, or its people or culture
n (plural Ca·na·di·ans)
somebody from Canada: somebody who was born in or is a citizen of Canada
Canadian eh? Yes I am.
You are not.
You are a citizen of the United States of America.
USA #1!
And look at that! Only one definition. No formal or informal, no slang or why is that?
Because Canadian means Canadian. Canada means Canada. (Its actually Native for village, Ka na'da) One original name for one country.
Not like taking a pre-existing name that means All the land of the combined Americas and messing it up for everyone.
And did you notice when our settlers got here they had some small degree of respect for the Natives and used their words to name the land before they were slaughtered, raped and stuck on reserves to be forgotten.
Do NOT lump me together with everyone else, and assume I am ignorant. In fact, by your posts, it seems you are the ignorant one.
ig·no·rant
ig·no·rant [ígnərənt]
adj
1. lacking knowledge: lacking knowledge and education in general or in a specific subject
2. unaware: unaware of something ignorant of the danger
3. resulting from lack of knowing: caused by a lack of understanding or experience an ignorant mistake
4. Caribbean quarrelsome: quarrelsome and aggressive
-ig·no·rant·ly, adv
Youre going to have to back that up with some evidence.
You rant about how all Americans (AMERICANS) are pretty much idiots. Then throw in a little side comment saying, oh, in this context, I am not American. I am Canadian.
Grow up.
rant
rant [rant]
vti (past rant·ed, past participle rant·ed, present participle rant·ing, 3rd person present singular rants)
speak in loud exaggerated manner: to speak in a very loud, aggressive, or bombastic way, usually at length and repetitively
n (plural rants)
loud and threatening speech: speech or language that is very loud and threatening but also monotonous or unconvincing
[Late 16th century. From Dutch ranten .]
I did not rant. I have had to repeat myself.
And Scuba tried to explain it slowly and as simply as possible.
But you still dont get it. And are now on this trip in an aggressive and bombastic way rant?
bom·bast
bom·bast [bóm bàst]
n
pompous language: language that is full of long or pretentious words, used to impress others
[Late 16th century. Alteration of Old French bombace cotton stuffing,which came via medieval Latin bombax cotton from Greek bombux silk, silkworm.]
-bom·bas·tic [bom bástik], adj
-bom·bas·ti·cal·ly [bom bástiklee], adv
No. You are not being bombastic. My mistake.
But still you grow up why dontcha?
I specifically said I do not think everyone from the U.S.A. is an idiot.
We have covered Canadian/American enough that only an idiot would not understand.
Got it? Good. Because that is the context in which we are talking on this thread. I am well aware of your argument. It is flawed. Take Asia for an example. If I am from Iraq, I am Asian. If I am from China, I am Asian. This is your argument, correct?
A·sia
A·sia [áyə]
the worlds largest continent, bordered by the Ural and Caucasus mountains and the Arctic, Pacific, and Indian oceans.
Area: 44,391,000 sq km/17,139,400 sq mi
Correct.
Granted, those people are all from Asia, but how many times do you hear someone from Iraq, Iran, India, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Saudi Arabia, etc. refer to themselves as Asian? Next to none.
Right again.
Keep going. You might have a point.
And why? Because in todays culture, Asian refers to people with distinct facial features that are generally found in China, Korea, Japan, Philippines, etc.
Wrong.
They do not often refer to themselves as Asian as a whole because they seem to have this quirky attitude that they are not the same people.
Much like Mexicans are proud of being Mexican and you are proud of being a U.S. citizen. (oops, fuel for your fire? No!) That does not change the fact that you are both American. Or the fact that you have usurped the definition of America for your own name.
Russians know they are located on the Asian continent. They know they are Asian. And the people in the mountainous regions even look like your visual definition of Asian. But Soviets or not delusional enough to say Russia is all of Asia. Not even North Korea has the sack to do that.
I do not object to defining myself as Canadian first and American second. Nor to you defining yourself as an American just as I do. Nor to you being more specific than just American, you are from the USA.
They have even more countries to sort out, 37, and far more divergent cultures and so must be even more specific.
Also we are in the New World. We (European English/Spanish/French influence) got here at about the same time to most parts of America.(relatively, we are talking differences of decades) While indigenous populations still exist, their cultures have largely been destroyed by us. The ideas of our culture are farley young. Brought here with us from the many parts of the world we came from. We are all in the same boat and trying to sort it all out.
Much more than Asian cultures that have been around for thousands of years.(and some tens of thousands of years) Who spent most of that time either ignoring each other because of geographic barriers, or building walls because they were shooting at each other. Thousands of years in isolation or conflict, defining their individualism.
Why do you think Japan and China are nothing alike? Because even though they have lived side by side forever, they don't want to be together.
And their differences are far greater than ours.
In particular groups like India, Afghanistan and Pakistan. Or China, Korea, Japan and the Philippines. Groups that at times were at war with each other for centuries.
And they remember that sort of thing much longer than we do. We can have a scuffle today and forget about it tomorrow. Business as usual. We do what is good for us today.
We dont care about some blood feud from forever ago. They do.
Don't think that Japan has forgotten those two little bombs. They are still at war with you. Only now they are using economics instead of bullets.
Some of them are now closely linked for economic reasons. But that does not mean they like each other much. Ask the Japanese how they feel about China. Those wounds are still fresh.
Another big BIG factor to consider is the effect that western culture has on them defining themselves to us. You can not observe someone without considering how your act of observing has altered their behaviour. Because of this
Because in todays culture, Asian refers to people with distinct facial features that are generally found in China, Korea, Japan, Philippines
What culture are you referring to? Your culture? Western culture.
Our culture. Not theirs.
The people of Asia might define themselves by more than just squinty eyes and yellow skin.
Just because modern western culture is racist and callus to individuals does not mean they paint themselves with the same brush you use.
You really think they dont mind when you mistake a Japanese for a Chinese? Or an Israeli and an Iranian?
They must strongly define their countries individually to us. Because they know the west does not care to know anything about them.
They might be more inclined to be grouped as one fore your convenience, if they knew you understood their differences.
I understand your point. I see where you are going with that. But there are more factors to consider. The example is not directly comparable, while I will agree that it seems so at first glance.
Just as American refers to those found in the United States of AMERICA.
Why, because you say so? Because the USA has the right to decide what all of America and all the world thinks? Because the USA has the right to rewrite history as a matter of convenience? Because the USA has the right to take what it wants, whenever it wants? There is a difference between big brother and big bully.
Dont make me get out the dictionary.
Oh, and we are arrogant for having America in our name?
No, not for that. You are part of America. America is part of you.
You are not arrogant for having America IN your name. We are The United States of America.
You are arrogant for taking America AS your name. We are America.
There is a difference. It may not matter to you. But thats the point.
It is what we represent.
Um, yeah. Unfortunately this sort of thing is sometimes representative of the USA.
We are STATES, not countries, in America
Exactly. You are the United States of America.
You are not all the countries in America.
Were finally making progress. Time to wrap it up.
Im as tired of this as you are. But it is important.
What better name should we have?
I agree that is a problem. The official name is so long and clumsy for everyday conversation. I too wish there was something else we could use.(It does look good on a letter head though. Nice bird. Big sharp claws. Impressive.) Of course that is why the incorrect America is used. Not because you are always intentionally insulting anyone.
We get that. As I have said. We let it slide when used in certain context.
But whether it is intentional or not it sometimes is an insult, occasionally purposely. And you should knock it off.
It is not really the fault of the Americas that the USA didnt think ahead.
You guys love NFL and NBA, how about USC? United States Citizen.
No good? Well that was off the top of my head.
Your country has had how long to deal with this? But you didnt. Because you dont care. And thats the point.
Our name stands for what we are. It is not meant to be taken as an insult.
Yeah I know. I have covered that in other posts. And when it is an insult.
And the post that started this We are America and they are irrelevant.
That was meant to be taken as an insult. It says so right in the post. Can it be read differently?
Bottom line: In today's society, American refers to being a citizen of the United States of America
Sadly typical. You think the world is as you say it is, because you say so. Because you think you are all that is. Because you think your society is the only one that matters. Thats what I said in the first place. Thanks for the summary.
And if you are to incompetent to understand that, then there is no real point in having a conversation with you.
Oh, you cant read basic English so I am incompetent?
Someone disagrees with you so why talk to them?
Its too hard to justify your position and behaviour?
Your way is the only way?
You are all that is?
Wrong.
Maybe your position is incorrect. Maybe you should change your behaviour.
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