What would you do if rays became illegal where you live

[Aw3s0m3]

Let me ask, as an outlander from the opposite side of the big dipper: is it really like you guys say? I mean if one does not flaunt the aro, or the sh or the whetever openly, keeps it in the confines of its tank, is there still a risk of discovery?

I mean, does the US really have the resources to go after rays? Does it soend tax payers money looking for Piranha in Armpit, Montana?

Seriously?

Honestly, the government will go to rediculous acts just to bust someone for stupid violations. They are even setting people up with these fake craigslist ads busting people not even for possession of them but with intent to.


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[Miguel]

Absolutely unbelievable.

To protect endangered species I can understand. To pursue traders in banned species i can understand, but To actively pursue and entrap hobbysts for banned ( for other reasons ) species is, for me, unbelievable, unconceivable.

Here they would need a judicial order to enter the house. I imagine a judge wasting his resources because one guy supposedly has a fish in a tank.

 

[T1KARMANN]

You are probably right, but i know what i have seen recently... and we already scare enough potential ray keepers off with the size of tanks we tell them they need that we should be more inviting to questions.

It's the facts that scare people off nothing more

When someone comes on and asks is a 180 a good size tank for rays they are told no

If we tell them yeah that's fine

1. It would be a lie and us giving the wrong info

2. Loads of rays would die and many more would find the way in to local rivers

Pit bulls are banned in the UK loads of people walk around the street with dogs that look like a pit proving it's a pit is a different story

This can be said for and Asian aro the keeper can say they had it before the ban it's down to the Feds to prove it wasn't


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[UnstoppableJayD]

Absolutely unbelievable.

To protect endangered species I can understand. To pursue traders in banned species i can understand, but To actively pursue and entrap hobbysts for banned ( for other reasons ) species is, for me, unbelievable, unconceivable.

Here they would need a judicial order to enter the house. I imagine a judge wasting his resources because one guy supposedly has a fish in a tank.

As oddball said way earlier in this thread... they are on forums just like this looking , and I am sure they are getting paid a governement wage to do that. I would Love DB to give more context on the story he was telling about someones whole collection being put on ice.

 

[UnstoppableJayD]

It's the facts that scare people off nothing more

When someone comes on and asks is a 180 a good size tank for rays they are told no

If we tell them yeah that's fine

1. It would be a lie and us giving the wrong info

2. Loads of rays would die and many more would find the way in to local rivers

Pit bulls are banned in the UK loads of people walk around the street with dogs that look like a pit proving it's a pit is a different story

This can be said for and Asian aro the keeper can say they had it before the ban it's down to the Feds to prove it wasn't


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TK,

I am in no way advocating giving false info... I just think we need to be more open to potential ray keepers.. My first rays were in a 210, now if i listened and didnt do it I would not have my big tank or a passion for keeping them.

 

[zapantha]

Absolutely unbelievable.

To protect endangered species I can understand. To pursue traders in banned species i can understand, but To actively pursue and entrap hobbysts for banned ( for other reasons ) species is, for me, unbelievable, unconceivable.

Here they would need a judicial order to enter the house. I imagine a judge wasting his resources because one guy supposedly has a fish in a tank.

Wouldn't it fall under the intent of protecting native species not entrapping hobbyists? Wouldnt these sting operations deter people from trying to obtain illegal species, deterring trying to obtain the species in general, and ultimately reducing risk of said fish being released? I know the whole one bad apple ruins the bunch, but same could be said of snakeheads, but somehow they got released anyways and are now out competing natives; but then again if an invasion is really bad is there really any use in not letting people keep them? Ie 9/10 fish in certain waters are silver carp, adding another carp where there are thousands wouldn't make much a difference since they've established so well. Just as killing off a few carp has been shown only to contribute to the natural die off numbers anyways. It really is all about money though, it cost billions to manage an already invasive species, probably a lot less to setup craigslist stings; and can you tell for sure which species can be invasive? Not for sure without spending so much time and money, a lot easier to just ban anything risky.


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[DB junkie]

As oddball said way earlier in this thread... they are on forums just like this looking , and I am sure they are getting paid a governement wage to do that. I would Love DB to give more context on the story he was telling about someones whole collection being put on ice.

I wish I could, but it's just not my place.... I was probably wayyyy low on the $ value too.

Probably shouldn't have even mentioned it at all, but thought maybe if people realized that the animals may be killed instead of rehomed it might change a person's train of thought regarding doing it.......

 

[zapantha]

I wish I could, but it's just not my place.... I was probably wayyyy low on the $ value too.

Probably shouldn't have even mentioned it at all, but thought maybe if people realized that the animals may be killed instead of rehomed it might change a person's train of thought regarding doing it.......

I get your point, but I couldn't see a f&w officer rehoming fish, maybe give them time to rehome maybe, but rehoming the fish themselves by the officers isn't feasible as far as temporary housing until a suitable home is found. BUT there was a case where there was a guy keeping koi in his restaurant where they were banned, they came once and warned him they'd come back the next day. They did come back and bust him but he was able to rehome the fish in a neighboring state. But I was thinking you weren't trying to deter but tell people to go hey fish and wildlife I'm keeping rays try and get me, but maybe I was misreading "openly fight"?


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[DB junkie]

I get your point, but I couldn't see a f&w officer rehoming fish, maybe give them time to rehome maybe, but rehoming the fish themselves by the officers isn't feasible as far as temporary housing until a suitable home is found. BUT there was a case where there was a guy keeping koi in his restaurant where they were banned, they came once and warned him they'd come back the next day. They did come back and bust him but he was able to rehome the fish in a neighboring state. But I was thinking you weren't trying to deter but tell people to go hey fish and wildlife I'm keeping rays try and get me, but maybe I was misreading "openly fight"? Sent from my iPad using MonsterAquariaNetwork app

Maybe we have different preceptions of F'n Wildlife? I'd expect them to do what's best for the animals. I thought that was their job. I would have never thought they just kill them.

"Openly fight" would be what I'd do if they showed up at my house. I'd know they were going to kill my animals. I'd fight them, get tased, likely beaten, and get hauled off to do time cause there's no friggin way I'm watching my animals die..... But that's IF they showed up, they never will cause I'll never keep rays illegally, I'd just move to where it's legal.

Speaking of moving to where it's legal, I wonder what the going rate is for ray poop in Colorado? Has to be some of the highest quality plant fertilizer in existence considering we stop at nothing to feed our rays the best diet we can......

 

[Aw3s0m3]

I agree with DB but the only thing is that when it comes to illegal fish, they're not gonna spend the time to find a home in a legal residence. They would send emails out to public aquariums but they get so many calls and emails about people wanting them to take their fish that f & w probably don't wanna waste their time. To them, these are just fish and not something they believe would socialize and interact with people. We as hobbyists know that we can actually interact and socialize with them but to these officers, these aren't cute and cuddly mammals that majority of the country would be outraged about killing. There was an article in my newspaper last year I believe about a lady that kept 3 servals illegally and they found then a home in a sanctuary, but when I worked at an lfs, we had a juvi garibaldi, which are illegal here since they are our state fish, and fish and wildlife came in and saw it and they killed the fish on spot and shut down the store.


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