What would you do if rays became illegal where you live

[Zoodiver]

You directly compared their actions to the Nazis.
The 'fact' of them being iced and put down is only part of the 'facts' of that case. I'm sure they were put down - I believe you. However, knowing it got to that point means that the offender was repeatedly warned and other methods were tried prior to having it end that way. That puts to the fault on nobody but the person who had to watch. I agree you are allowed you opinion - everyone has that right. I would like to know all the facts that lead to an ending prior to forming my opinion. You posted you don't know them, and don't care to find out. For me, the process is just as important as the result you are upset about. Would you still be upset if the agents had in reality given the owner several chances to relocate the animals over the course of a year? I've seen that route happen several times. A major offense is noted and made clear to an owner. Orders are given as to what needs to happen and a dead line laid down. The orders are ignored. Another warning/dead line is issued. The owner neglects following the instruction, and sometimes adds animals instead of removing them. Third, fourth or fifth time the agents come back with little to no result - why should they offer more? There was plenty of time to take the correct actions for the well being of the animals.

Like I said, I am not aware of ANY case going straight in and putting down live animals that were healthy. It's against the SOP of any animal related agency in the US that I've worked with. If you have proof otherwise, I'd be happy to learn more.

 

[Mr. Allgood]

Haha, "what makes you above the law?"
Answer: Intelligence
Every counter to zoo's weak argument has already been discussed. Sorry guy, punishing everyone because of a few idiots accomplishes little other than increasing contempt for the "law". Invasive species are a real problem but if it was legal to sell them then people wouldn't turn them loose so often!

 

[zapantha]

Haha, "what makes you above the law?"
Answer: Intelligence
Every counter to zoo's weak argument has already been discussed. Sorry guy, punishing everyone because of a few idiots accomplishes little other than increasing contempt for the "law". Invasive species are a real problem but if it was legal to sell them then people wouldn't turn them loose so often!

Is that really true? If the fish is illegal doesn't it make more sense that the fish would therefore be harder to get, and those really determined to get them would be less likely to release them? Pacu and goldfish are legal and they're released all the time, more often then we find stingrays or piranha released I believe? Legal, more readily available, more likely to go to an impulse buyer. I don't see people with stingrays and snakeheads everywhere so I'm sure it's a lot less than we would without the law considering the amount of people trying to find one and failing.


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[zapantha]

All it needs is a "few idiots" to ruin the environment, if snakeheads were banned from the get go maybe we wouldn't have the invasion, same goes for silver carp.


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[zapantha]

Honestly this thread is way off track and probably shouldn't be in this section anymore considering it's turned about the laws in general and f&w in general and not the fish.


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[UnstoppableJayD]

Well I accomplished one goal... to liven up the forum..lol

ZD I agree with a lot of what you are saying as i actually referenced danger to humans as something that should be regulated, and The FW people, I am sure some are more compassionate then others.. so I will let that lie...

I think the biggest issue is ludicrousness of the laws and the lack of info the people making the laws have. I will state a few that I think are rubbish and would love to here your justification

Stingrays- Are banned in NYC but not in the rest of the state????
Asain Arrowanas- Banned for being endangered- Everone sold is tagged and captive born
Parroon Sharks- they kinda look like a gigas so you can not import them
Pirrahnas- Banned in NYC....um can a pirranha live in a North Eastern winter???

 

[UnstoppableJayD]

All it needs is a "few idiots" to ruin the environment, if snakeheads were banned from the get go maybe we wouldn't have the invasion, same goes for silver carp.


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The snakeheads that "got loose" were intended for the asian food markets and had nothing to do with the pet industry

 

[zapantha]

The snakeheads that "got loose" were intended for the asian food markets and had nothing to do with the pet industry

But his idea was to farm them and it wasn't determined whether it was definitely for the Asian food market or for pet trade although it was most likely. But my point is that banning something isn't what leads to most releasing fish, the person I was responding to's point was that contempt of the law and illegality to sell makes more people release fish. Imagine the breeding trade, imagine if someone wants to profit and throw a bunch of rays in an outside pond and some get out? Legality& desirability leads to people wanting to profit, and all it takes is a bad decision, and banning does deter people releasing them in the end result I believe.


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[zapantha]

Well I accomplished one goal... to liven up the forum..lol

ZD I agree with a lot of what you are saying as i actually referenced danger to humans as something that should be regulated, and The FW people, I am sure some are more compassionate then others.. so I will let that lie...

I think the biggest issue is ludicrousness of the laws and the lack of info the people making the laws have. I will state a few that I think are rubbish and would love to here your justification

Stingrays- Are banned in NYC but not in the rest of the state????
Asain Arrowanas- Banned for being endangered- Everone sold is tagged and captive born
Parroon Sharks- they kinda look like a gigas so you can not import them
Pirrahnas- Banned in NYC....um can a pirranha live in a North Eastern winter???

I agree that some of the bans don't make sense as far as the info I currently have. My point was that banning the whole because of the action of a few can be necessary and can be effective.

 

[Miguel]

I fully see where Matt is coming from. But we all know situations where f&w, be they european, us or anywhere else, do not know how to deal with the issue without euthanasia. I have seen it here qith Lions, i have seen it in Hong Kong with people taking aro's to europe, etc, etc...

Say that one hobbyist has some illegal stock. Even so, odds are he is the best suited person to keep them untill they die ( that can be monitored ). Why the need to rehome? If someone has a ray, why the need to rehome said ray? What ensures it will be best cared for in the new place?

Why the useif atomic weapons for an issue that coild be dealt with a sling?

That is what i do not understand and consider a waste of resources, no matter the way one elians it.

Am talking about fish. A talking aout responsible owners who know husbandry.
Am not getting into dangerous animals and badly maintained animals.