Whats the ULTIMATE freshwater monster.
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I too to the best of my knowledge I have heard and understand that the deal with Bull Sharks is they live where ever they want to live if there is enough food and resources. This including oceans, estuaries and major rivers etc.. and they absolutely can spend they're entire lives in fresh water. There are populations (and if I come across the literature I am going to post citations) that they spend there entire lives in fresh water the main ones I have heard of were from the mouth of the Amazon River into the Atlantic, Southern Africa river systems (documented by Jeremy Wade if I recall correctly), and lastly by in some in western Australia river systems.
The point is though even no matter how formidable a Bull Shark is in a battle I still pick an Goliath African Tiger Fish. However that changes if the battle happens at night when the Bull Sharks senses are heightened then I say the advantage goes to the Bull Shark. If an Electric Eel did manage to zap either one though the Eel does have an outside shot at this title.
Cheers
The point is though even no matter how formidable a Bull Shark is in a battle I still pick an Goliath African Tiger Fish. However that changes if the battle happens at night when the Bull Sharks senses are heightened then I say the advantage goes to the Bull Shark. If an Electric Eel did manage to zap either one though the Eel does have an outside shot at this title.
Cheers
The only issue I take with bull sharks is that at the end of the day, they're an oceanic species to me. They're like tarpon, striped bass, drum and other well known ocean fish. Just because they can live and even thrive in fresh water doesn't change the fact that they're a primarily oceanic species. I've personally discounted tarpon earlier in this discussion on that ground as well.
To me, if we're debating what is the ultimate freshwater predator, the question is only among purely freshwater fish. Entering a 700 pound oceanic shark species that happens to live in some freshwater locations is illogical in my opinion. The debate can go on considering sharks and dolphins and other such things as to who is the supreme fish, but at the end of the day, in my mind, they don't qualify. Anadromous species don't count either IMO.
This is all just semantics of course. Even if there is a self sustaining population of bulls living in Lake Nicaragua, I'd still consider them to be members of a saltwater species, just like I do with tarpons. Until the Lake Nicaragua population evolves to such a point that it is a unique species, my opinion won't change on that matter. On the other side of that coin, as far as I'm concerned Glyphis is a true freshwater shark. As stated above, they are born, live, reproduce and die in freshwater. They're not nearly the predator that a bull shark is though.
JMO of course. Feel free to continue to debate the subject as you all see fit. I don't, and won't, recognize bull sharks as a freshwater species however, until the majority of them are freshwater. Like Glyphis. Until then, they're an oceanic species in my eyes.
To me, if we're debating what is the ultimate freshwater predator, the question is only among purely freshwater fish. Entering a 700 pound oceanic shark species that happens to live in some freshwater locations is illogical in my opinion. The debate can go on considering sharks and dolphins and other such things as to who is the supreme fish, but at the end of the day, in my mind, they don't qualify. Anadromous species don't count either IMO.
This is all just semantics of course. Even if there is a self sustaining population of bulls living in Lake Nicaragua, I'd still consider them to be members of a saltwater species, just like I do with tarpons. Until the Lake Nicaragua population evolves to such a point that it is a unique species, my opinion won't change on that matter. On the other side of that coin, as far as I'm concerned Glyphis is a true freshwater shark. As stated above, they are born, live, reproduce and die in freshwater. They're not nearly the predator that a bull shark is though.
JMO of course. Feel free to continue to debate the subject as you all see fit. I don't, and won't, recognize bull sharks as a freshwater species however, until the majority of them are freshwater. Like Glyphis. Until then, they're an oceanic species in my eyes.
My bad, I recall seeing those pics with the kid and reading that it was 3'.
It is a rather sad indictment on the "monster" side of the hobby that most of these big fish sold meet an untimely demise. 10x4x4' sounds like a hell of a tank, but for a big fast fish like that it really is just a puddle. The question is what size tank would you need to keep a GATF alive for 20 years and get it to over 4'? Given the speed I've seen them exhibit on fishing/nature programmes I would guess it would need to be huge. I look at all the silver aros, clown loaches, GATFs, panaques, clown knife, massive catfish, dovii etc etc etc and it actually gets me down about this hobby thinking about how few of them are ever going to end up in a tank that really does them justice. This article restored a little faith, 60+ years old and three different owners is a great innings for any aquarium fish!
I'm not doubting you or MN_Rebel, I've just not had any luck ferreting out RELIABLE info on them. And I'm normally pretty decent at ferreting out info. :/ lol All I can seem to find is River Monsters and crap spawned directly from River Monsters.
I'm inclined to agree with your take on all of this. The prospect of what I'm going to do with Max as he eclipses the 2' mark that seems to be terminal for most of these fish presents me with a major moral dilemma. I already have a 510 gallon tank that will suit him for quite some time to come, but I knew going into that tank that it was just a growout. He's going to need something on the order of multi-thousands of gallons in the longest of the long term and I fully know it. For a fish like Hydrocynus goliath, even arapaimag's 52,000 gallon tank would probably feel small. These guys live in the most powerful rapids on Earth as adults. We can't simulate that, the best we can do is a pale imitation when they're quite young.
In a few years, I hope to be able to offer my pets a several thousand gallon tank similar to the one the BigRich545 has. In order for that to happen for me though, it would require a similar series of serendipitous events to come together.
To be completely honest, if I can keep him alive long enough that he outgrows the 510, I really don't know what will come after that.
the bullsharks are not land locked in lake Nicaragua they can jump along the rapids of the San Juan River (connects Lake Nicaragua and the Caribbean Sea) almost like salmon. also the sharks tagged in the lake have been caught in the open ocean and vice versa.
All the marine stuff, and anything not predatory should be tossed out. Mekong giants are big and all but that would be an great long lasting meal for a gatf. In natural conditions (a river or lake, not a tank) I believe the GATF will come out on top no matter what. Too fast, too big of teeth and too efficient of a striker to try and say anything tops it.
It would be a hell of a lucky strike from a FW stingray to hit a gatf.
Sturgeon don't attack larger fish, and are far too slow too withstand gatf attack
Bull sharks have only been made FW by human intervention which should not count.
Glyphis is the only shark that should be accountable in this. And I feel like its in between an aimara wolf, a GATF and a glyphis for ultimo! I don't think any other fish can really stack up to any of those
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It would be a hell of a lucky strike from a FW stingray to hit a gatf.
Sturgeon don't attack larger fish, and are far too slow too withstand gatf attack
Bull sharks have only been made FW by human intervention which should not count.
Glyphis is the only shark that should be accountable in this. And I feel like its in between an aimara wolf, a GATF and a glyphis for ultimo! I don't think any other fish can really stack up to any of those
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Still there are other landlocked bull sharks in parts of the world, not just Lake Nicaragua.
So does that means Alligator Gar got tossed out too since they are not 100% freshwater fish?
Is it a freshwater species or a marine species? A gator gar being in the ocean is like a bull shark being in Illinois, it happens but it's not normal. Gars aren't a marine species. Some trevally and snappers can occasionally be found in freshwater, but they're still considered marine species. I've caught largemouth bass in full salt water in the Saint John's River in Jacksonville, Florida right along side of bonnethead sharks and drum. LMB are still considered freshwater fish.
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